R-134A

Europe has switched to a different refrigerant and no one over there makes it anymore so the US is the only remaining large market for 134a so the supply has gone down and the price has gone up.

Ah, no. Europe doesen't have to switch over to R744 until 2011 And don't be surprised if at the last minute that gets jettisoned. One of the biggest problems with R744 is that there's no way to leak detect it except for using dye. (R744 is basically CO2 and as that's present in the air already, a leak detector can't tell the difference) And dye is unacceptable for automotive servicing - people aren't going to put up with being told to come back to the A/C shop 4-6 times after service work just to tighten a few fittings.

It also has to be run at thousands of PSI which makes it a real problem for long term life of flexible lines. And charging it is going to be a bitch since your going to have to be buying it in pressure bottles like you would buy welding gasses.

This is typical Europe tree-hugging. Your not going to see China and India fool around with this sort of thing for many many years, if ever. Hell they just barely stopped making stuff with R12 in it.

Here's a good link on this problem:

The reason there is a shortage is:

1) DuPont had a "production interruption" (rumor is a fire) last year in one of it's major R134a production plants and it shut down production for some time as a result. 2) The worldwide demand for R134a has jumped tremendously because China and India are converting over to R134a from R12, also in Europe now, most vehicles are being produced with A/C, a few years ago most didn't come with A/C from the factory. 3) The refrigerant gas manufacturers didn't project the sudden spike in demand and as a result there's no new R134a production facilities coming online in the near future. 4) More R134a is being diverted from the auto market (where the margins are rather thin) to the propellant markets (paint cans, hairspray, etc.) where the margins are much bigger. 5) A number of factories that make R134a also can switchover to making HFC125 and when the prices of those gasses is higher than R134a, they stop producing R134a and produce HFC125 until the price of HFC125 comes down and R134a goes up.

HFC125 is used to make R407c, which is the alternative refrigerant for R22 systems, much like R134a is the alternative for R12 systems. Right now there is a big push for getting the large systems (like the A/C used in your home) converted over to R407c because in 2010 manufacturers will be prohibited from making R22 systems.

6) There is significant price gouging in the retail market driven mainly by the lack of information out there, also people are panicing and are hoarding the stuff right now.

See

for more info. The high prices will likely continue until 2006.

Ted

hog wash R134a was 7 bucks a can before summer and now its 14 bucks a can all do to the demand cuz of summer another ploy by the big guys!!!!!!

My info was what was printed in Motor Magazine last month. They said the euro factories stopped making 134 leaving only the US factories.. Supply and Demand. Same demand, less supply, higher price.

Europe doesen't have to switch over to R744 until 2011 And

Thanks for the input.

Surely, the price will go down on r-134a when Dupont's Corpus Christie unit comes back on line.

Meanwhile, prices on a 30 lb. jug of it are around $250.00! Ridiculous.

"On Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:46:08 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt" " wrote: " ">

">> >What has happened to the skyrocketing prices of R-134a? ">> >Is there an alternative on the horizon and if so, what is ">> >the name and expected release date and expected price? ">> >

">>

">> Europe has switched to a different refrigerant and no one over there ">> makes it anymore so the US is the only remaining large market for 134a ">> so the supply has gone down and the price has gone up. ">

">Ah, no. " "My info was what was printed in Motor Magazine last month. They said "the euro factories stopped making 134 leaving only the US factories.. "Supply and Demand. Same demand, less supply, higher price. " " " Europe doesen't have to switch over to R744 until 2011 And ">don't be surprised if at the last minute that gets jettisoned. One of the ">biggest problems with R744 is that there's no way to leak detect it ">except for using dye. (R744 is basically CO2 and as that's present in ">the air already, a leak detector can't tell the difference) And dye is ">unacceptable for automotive servicing - people aren't going to put up ">with being told to come back to the A/C shop 4-6 times after service ">work just to tighten a few fittings. ">

">It also has to be run at thousands of PSI which makes it a real problem ">for long term life of flexible lines. And charging it is going to be a ">bitch ">since your going to have to be buying it in pressure bottles like you ">would buy welding gasses. ">

">This is typical Europe tree-hugging. Your not going to see China and ">India fool around with this sort of thing for many many years, if ever. ">Hell they just barely stopped making stuff with R12 in it. ">

">Here's a good link on this problem: ">

">

">

">The reason there is a shortage is: ">

">1) DuPont had a "production interruption" (rumor is a fire) last year in one ">of it's ">major R134a production plants and ">it shut down production for some time as a result. ">

">2) The worldwide demand for R134a has jumped tremendously because China ">and India are converting over to R134a from R12, also in Europe now, most ">vehicles are being produced with A/C, a few years ago most didn't come with ">A/C from the factory. ">

">3) The refrigerant gas manufacturers didn't project the sudden spike in ">demand ">and as a result there's no new R134a production facilities coming online in ">the ">near future. ">

">4) More R134a is being diverted from the auto market (where the margins are ">rather thin) to the propellant markets (paint cans, hairspray, etc.) where ">the ">margins are much bigger. ">

">5) A number of factories that make R134a also can switchover to making ">HFC125 ">and when the prices of those gasses is higher than R134a, they stop ">producing R134a ">and produce HFC125 until the price of HFC125 comes down and R134a goes up. ">

">HFC125 is used to make R407c, which is the alternative refrigerant for R22 ">systems, much like R134a is the alternative for R12 systems. Right now ">there is ">a big push for getting the large systems (like the A/C used in your home) ">converted over to R407c because in 2010 manufacturers will be prohibited ">from ">making R22 systems. ">

">6) There is significant price gouging in the retail market driven mainly by ">the lack of information out there, also people are panicing and are hoarding ">the stuff right now. ">

">See

for moreinfo. ">

">The high prices will likely continue until 2006. ">

">Ted ">

Huh? That's only $8 a pound. That's about 50% higher then what it was selling for 5 years ago (on a per can at AutoZone price) and that's without accounting for inflation.

try 400 bucks a 30 pounder keg. KB

Ashton Crusher snipped-for-privacy@nowhere.net wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

My local Sam's Club has 30 lb cylinders of R-134a for $235, plus or minus, or did have when I was there last weekend...

Now, R-12 goes for around $400/cylinder, maybe more...I haven't checked eBay for a while...

Just bought a dozen 11-ounce cans at Sam's Club for $88.52. Comes out to $7.38 a can. Still a far cry from about $25 that I paid for the previous case I bought there a couple of years ago. :(. The 30-pound cylinders were selling for about $230, if anyone's interested.