TRANSMISSION SLIPS ONLY WHEN CAR IS COLD!!!

Read this thread -

It is probably too late to do anything except get ready to have it rebuilt. You can try changing the fluid, but it is my experience that once you let one slip for awhile, your transmission is probably just about toast. The problem most likely is a build up of degraded fluid on the walls of the hydraulic actuators. This makes them sticky, and less able to supply the proper force on the clutches. This allows for slippage. And the slippage between gears, creates the "big jolt." If it was mine, I'd change the fluid, but with the understanding that this was a desperate measure made necessary by neglecting proper maintenance.

How many miles on the transmission? When was the last time you had the fluid changed? I looked at the Honda maintenance schedule and I don't see routine changes recommended, but then it you read the above Car Talk thread, 30k changes seems like a smart move. Apparently 1998-2002 Honda Transmissions were troublesome.

Ed

I looked at the Honda maintenance schedule and I don't

\Ed, my son and his family have two Hondas, both hybrids. He was under the same impression that the tranny didn't need to be serviced very often. (Had all his services done at the dealership).

Then, along came transmission problems. The dealership whistled, looked at the sky, but finally agreed that since the vehicles had been properly serviced according to their own rules, and because extended warrantly was still in place, they would first try a tranny flush at dealership expense. Believe it or not, it seems to have cured the problem.

Otherwise they would have replaced the tranny.

This also references a previous thread about the wisdom of using tranny flushes. IF the dealership had changed the fluid more often, perhaps the problem would not have arisen. Son will, in the future, have the tranny serviced on a more frequent schedule. (This is the tranny with no filter)

"C. E. White" wrote in news:45fea9e5$1 @kcnews01:

I just read the maintenance schedule for the '97 Accord. The fluid is supposed to be replaced every 48K miles/48 months under the "Normal" schedule, and twice as often under the "severe" schedule.

The V6 ones, yes. It apparently began with a redesign that was concurrent with a change in the V6 from 2.7 liters displacement to 3.0 for the 1998 model year. It was due to design defects, which were corrected as of the 2003 model year.

there is 115k on the transmission. I just changed the fluid a couple of days ago. I got the used and it had 103k on it so not sure when it was change before that. But why does it only slip when it is cold? Also could it be the Torque Converter?

It has 115k and the fluids were changed two days ago. Also why does it only slip when it is cold? Also could it be the torque Converter?

It is not unusual for automatic transmissions in older cars to be slow to engage, or to slip a bit, when they are cold...

Your transmission may have never been serviced.. You dont really know.

EVEN IF IT HAD, things wear.

Slow engagement or slipping may mean that you have worn parts, including clutch packs, or a worn pump. When the car is cold, the effective line pressure may be too low to make the tranny work as it should.

Some people never change the fluid (or filters, if your car has one). They just run the very shit out of the car and trade it in...

Since you have already had the tranny serviced, the most logical scenario is that you have wear in the tranny and you will, at some time or the other in the future, need a rebuild... Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but you are, IMO, living on borrowed time.

This is just my opinion, and is worth just what you paid for it.

If it didn't slip before you had the service done, and it is doing it now (after the service), I would bring it back to the shop where you had it done and tell them....this may be a dumb question, but did you check the level after the service?

Fwed

It is not likely to be the torque converter.

As to why it only slips when cold -there are several possibilities

1) When the transmission is cold the parts are at their minimum dimensions. More fluid may leak past seals, etc. leading to low line pressures. At the lower pressure the bands/clutches don't properly engage. As the transmission warms up, internal parts expand, reducing clearances and this restores normal operation - or at least seems to. It might be the pressure is still reduced and some slippage is still present, just not enough to be noticeable. 2) When the transmission is cold seals are hard and don't seal as well - pretty much the same scenario as above. As the transmission heats up, the seals become more flexible and do a better job of sealing the components. 3) Old degraded fluid (i.e., varnish) is contaminating the walls of the actuators. When everything is cold, the actuators are sluggish, and don't provide proper pressure on the bands/clutches. This leads to slippage 4) Internal transmission passages are restricted by old degraded fluid This restricts fluid flow (and increase the pressure drop). When the transmission fluid is cold it is more viscous, so the pressure drop through the restricted passages is greater resulting in reduced pressure on clutches/bands which allows slippage. As the fluid heats up, the viscosity decreases and fluid flow increases (and the pressure drop is less) resulting in normal operation. 5) The internal parts are so worn that clearances when cold are great enough to prevent proper engagement of the bands/clutches. As parts heat up, they expand, reducing clearances, which allows normal operation. 6) A combination of all of the above.

Since you bought the car used, with over 100k miles it is entirely possible the fluid was never changed. Changing it so late in the game might not do any good - particularly if the transmission has been slipping for awhile.

Once an automatic starts slipping it is not going to last long. Slipping increases the wear on the bands/clutches and mating surfaces and generates a lot of additional heat. Slipping "burns" fluid which can further clog internal passages and interfere with the operation of the actuators. It is a viscous circle. Slipping leads to more slipping and eventually to complete transmission failure.

If you are looking for a miracle you can try a couple of things - 1) Pay for a complete transmission flush. This might open up clogged passages and allow normal operation, or it might remove the crud that is actually the only thing left allowing your transmission to work at all (definitely a crap shoot at this point). 2) Pour in one of the many "fine" transmission additives on the shelf at your local auto parts store (from companies like Lucas, Gunk, Bars, CD2, K&W, Prolong, No Leak, CRC). Ordinarily I would not go near any of this stuff with a ten foot pole, but it sounds like you are already 90% of the way towards needing a new transmission. A miracle may be your last hope. Here are a couple of the "miracle" additives available for a desperate person -

-Lucas Transmission Fix with ATF Conditioner - Gunk Transeal Automatic Transmission Sealer

If you have faith, then the Lucas stuff sounds like the perfect "fix." Personally, I think your only fix is going to be a used or rebuilt transmission. If it was my car, I'd schedule an appointment with a Honda dealer or a reputable independent transmission shop (check around, there are lots of disreputable transmission shops out there).

Ed

The Lucas stuff is mostly a detergent that gets some of that old varnish into solution. Also worth trying is the Royal Purple synthetic ATF, which has stronger solvent properties than most and will help dissolve those deposits.

Changing the fluid or adding the Lucas stuff will take only a short amount of time and minimal cost, and it might help you eke a little bit more life out of the transmission before it finally goes. It's not a real fix, though, and I agree that it's only a matter of time before it's time to replace it.

--scott

On a high mileage unit the internal rubber seals are often hardened and shrunk, this causes some leakage at the clutches and the clutches will slip until the fluid warms up and softens the seals a little. Also, in high mileage units that have not had frequent fluid changes, the old fluid can have a more aggresive coefficient of friction than fresh fluid; this can cause slippage to start shortly after a fluid change.

If seals are the problem, short of an overhaul, the only thing to try would be an additive like Trans-X or Lucas that softens the seals.

yeah thanks guys for your help. It was my transmission. I had to get a rebuilt one. Thanks again for your help.