Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure? (2025 Update)

They rarely do. Funny how a lot of people that do long-haul truck maintenance insist on Hastings....

If you were really interested in having a strong filter container on that engine you would have stayed with the one that was designed for and came with the engine.

Here is the problem I have with the common folklore that some people are pretending is common knowledge. The folklore got its beginning with people cutting open filters and analyzing the contents - something similar to reading tea leaves in a cup. If you look at the big picture the number of people who share this common set of beliefs about Fram filters being junk is pretty small compared to the number of engines that are using Fram oil filters without any incident. That is there are a large number of people out in the world at large that apparently do not buy into the so called common knowledge about Fram filters. The group that does nurture this common folklore is small and the number of Fram filters that this group uses is even smaller since many of them claim to have used only one Fram filter in their whole life. Yet this small group produces a rather astonishingly large number of all the stories about Fram filters being the bogeyman. Of course the folklore includes a ready explanation for this. This group is knowledgeable and all the others are ignorant.

The Fram folklore stories seem to run along lines like this:

I modified the lubricating system on my engine and the filter blew up I'm sure the fault was due to the Fram bogeyman.

I bought an old beater for $500 that has 250K miles. It has low oil pressure. This must be the Fram bogeyman.

My engine has low oil pressure. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the slick 50 i have been putting in it. it must be the Fram bogey man again.

And so on and so on.

I'm sorry but i don't buy that these are stories from knowledgeable people. IMO these are stories from superstitious people.

-jim

Ths conversation was suppose to be on oil filters and now we are talking quality of vehicles. From my 46 years of ownership with automobiles, I have never seen any problem with any engine from oil filters from any manufacture.

My area does not have to deal with cold temperature starts; we luck if we even get down to low 30's in the winter.

As far as car quality of cars, I have owned Fords, Toyotas, Pontiac, Chevys, Mazada, and Dodge. Every vehicle I owned was driven for over 150,000 miles before I sold it or traded it in except for one Ford that had 3 miles over

So my belief is that all make good quality cars and they all make crap at times. I do believe it is how you maintain your vehicles will determine how long they last.

My present vehicles are all Dodges and no issues with any of them but they are all serviced by the dealership my wife works at. They have caught some potential problems and took corrective action to fix before any major repairs. By the way, I only let one of the dealers mechanic work on our vehicles.

Way back when, Toyota filters were Purolator, in Canada anyway.

Well your not helping me out by quoting advertising. I didn't make any dramatic claims I said independent studies have shown that Fram did better on some of the tests that indicated it removed more of the smaller particles. I didn't say whether that was good or bad. According to SAE standards they all remove the amount of dirt needed to keep the engine running. It's been 30 years since I have seen an engine that was maintained on the manufacturers schedule that has died due to a lubrication related failure. If you want to worry about extending the life of a car worry about how to keep the upholstery or the

No you have failed to understand what I agreed was true. I agreed that overloading the oil filter is always a bad thing no matter how it happens. And i agreed that it may be possible that if person switches filter brands to one that is more aggressive after many many years of using one that is not aggressive that could make it more likely to overload the filter.

The point that you can't seem to wrap your head around is that brand new cars do not come with an accumulation of small particles in the engine crankcase. Whether or not you believe fine particles are harmful if the filter is not removing them from the oil then over many years and miles some of those those fine particles will accumulate. That is why when you wipe your finger on the inside of some old engines your finger looks like it is covered with black paint. Old cars sometimes do come with an accumulation of fine particles and that certainly makes it more likely that a filter that is more aggressive will become overloaded.

Well that's what it sounded like. You made your statement in direct response to the claim that studies have shown Fram to be more aggressive at removing the smallest particles. You then went on to quote pages of advertising copy that you seem to think was either proving or refuting the point depending on which way the wind was blowing at the time.

I quoted what you actually said. You quoted what you actually said. If what you actually said was meaningless and completely irrelevant to the discussion (as you seem to be claiming now) why did you say it?

You don't seem to get it - there is nothing particularly useful in regurgitating advertising copy. I pay no attention to what Fram says about Fram filters or what Wix says about Wix filters. When you say you are quoting somebody's advertising I usually skip to the next paragraph. i can see no point in trying to compare ad copy. Its even dumber than cutting filters open.

That is what you claimed. At least that was your direct response to the claim that independent studies have shown they do remove the finest particles.

You said: If you remove a lot of very small, non-harmful particles, all you are doing is pluggin up the filter sooner and reducing flow through the filter element, resulting in the filter going into bypass mode, and in this case, you aren't filtering anything.

So what are you saying

It's not my BS several studies have shown that Fram is better at removing smaller particles then some of the others. IMO It doesn't make much difference. Which brand removes the smallest particles is a moot point - its not worth even knowing. It's been 30 years since I have seen an engine that was maintained properly that had a lubrication related problem that led to its demise. Cars that have the prescribed maintenance die from just about anything else nowadays and it doesn't make a bit of difference if you used a fram or purolator or wix or whatever. If something else sends the car to the crusher anyway why worry about it? But if you are going to worry about it look at the studies that the truck engine manufacturers have done. The have good evidence that removing particles down to 2 microns will make a significant difference in ring and bearing wear.

Nope sorry I'm ot even in the least interested.

Tell me why you are no longer beating your wife.

Well if Cadillacs are so great why offer a chevy. the cheapest filter you can find will do an adequate job.

Somebody pointed to consumer reports test. I would have to believe that it made a difference to be motivated to do your work for you.

Whether any of that is true or not makes no real difference. Even if "Fram filters use the poorest construction techniques blah blah blah" were true. It wouldn't make any difference. There is practically zero chance that using Fram filters for the entire life of an engine will shorten the life of the engine. So all this dissecting of filter parts and analyzing advertizing c claims is a massive waste of time.

You tell me how the relief valve works. The relief valve itself does not contact the cardboard end caps so I don't get what you are getting at. The endcaps are not in the same place so obviously they don't see the same forces. If you replace the relief valve with cardboard that cardboard would be affected by pressure.

And all of this is absurd anyway since if you have such a cruddy engine that you are threatening to blow the by pass valve the brand of filter is the least of your worries.

the glue not only attaches the end cap it glues the pleats together.

So?

Is that like a distinction without a difference?

I told you I have seen a lot of filters with that construction both before and after they were used. It looks like it works very well to me.

Based on your superstition.

I agree you have said you never had an engine failure and i do find that to be refreshingly honest. I didn't mean to imply you had made up anything. What I meant is the vast number of Fram basher stories I believe are made up. The think just like you do that "this cant possibly work" and so they feel compelled to create a story as a cautionary tale to others.

I have seen a lot of filter elements and none have torn. but i can imagine if they are overloaded the paper pleats will collapse inward and tear from the ends. But that would happen if the were glued to metal also.

So now your introducing the idea that fram uses more fragile paper for the pleats. All the filters i have seen the glue and endcaps are atleast

Well it does happen i've seen pictures. For one thing not all filters have the bypass valve. Some applications have the valve in the engine. So one way it happens is using the wrong filter.

Actually they aren't any more rigid.

I know the filter on the car i now drive never goes into by pass mode. It doesn't have one. And what do you think the pressure regulator does?

It's my answer.

reason I ask you to explain its working is simple. You keep implying

I'm doubt the area of the valve opening is less than the oil galley leaving the filter. Do you seriously think all these imagined failures are really going to happen. Do you believe that all the quality control departments that have look at these filters are so much dumber than you are? Any large retail chain that is selling the filters or any lube service center chain is going to have gone over all this much more thoroughly than you have, because they aren't interested in antagonizing customers.

I claimed that both your study of the advertisements and the study of filter guts are irrelevant. Putting a filter that is better than or worse than Fram on your car is not going to make a difference. All the people that i have seen that claim engine damage from fram are blowing smoke. They already had or would have had engine damage anyway and that is assuming you believe the story.

It is superstition when you think taking some action will have an effect and it won't .

OK you are a strange person then. Why do care if they don't do any harm. I must admit you have been the only Fram basher that comes across as being honest. I personally never thought much about filter brands until i observed the hysteria of others. As far as i can tell the way the manufacturers have got the bases covered it makes as much sense as worrying about the brand of gasoline you use. Sure there are differences. but it isn't really worth the effort to decipher them.

It likely didn't even allow much oil to go unfiltered. The force of the oil would tend to close in on any tears. It is the opposite of the forces of a balloon that pops.

OK I'm not going to go through all that. It's like reading your choices for brands of toilet paper. Its not like you are going to use these things over and over again. They don't need to be made like a swiss watch.

-jim

Show me where there was *any* significant change in the small-block Chevy V8 oiling system when GM changed the block casting to use spin-on filters. That Fram should not have blown up.

If I remember correctly, GM used a similar adapter for a few months to use up the "non spin-on" block still in the parts pipeline.

AXOD. The tranny that was so bad they had to rename it. If your brother likes the Taurus, he should look for one with the AX4N tranny. Much better than the AX4S (which is the old AXOD).

That's demonstrably not true for *all* people. 80's aircooled VWs for example, would develop very high pressures on cold startup (I've seen them peg 100 PSI gauges) and they could and did occasionally pop Frams.

Of course, as always, don't let facts get in the way of your ranting. It's kind of amusing watching you proudly demonstrate your ignorance and prejudices on a worldwide forum for all to admire!

nate

Really, man, I tell you, those who think they know everything annoy the hell out of us who really *DO*! ;)

I was beginning to think 'jim' was a bot...

They burst for the same reason other filters burst. The engine develops considerably more oil pressure than the manufacture's oil filter pressure specification calls for. If you have any proof at all that Fram filters do not meet manufacturers specifications and burst at a lower pressure that would be one thing. But you don't have any proof. You just have a stream of bullshit.

Your talking bullshit.

I have no problem with that, But when you repeatedly and insistently attempt to spread unsubstantiated rumors don't be surprised that that someone calls you full of s*it.

-jim

But if I have a product, any product, and it fails, and a second one fails or I hear of someone else who has the same problem I'm not going to go out and blindly buy another just because the manufacturer claims they are all made to the design specifications. It failed.

And I'm going to tell everyone who asks, or will listen. It's human nature.

There are other products out there that do the same/better/worse job but they haven't failed on me.

It's not bulls*t it's commercial realty

The tranny showed no sign of being overheated, and the engine overheat was due to a rapid loss of coolant on level highway without any extra load. Some hamfisted "mechanic" broke the plastic water bypass fitting off the intake when replacing the alternator (which was not defective). It belonged to the husband of one of the gals at the insurance office where I work a few hours. He was sick of it and sold it to me at scrap price.

No mods at all to the regulator and there WAS an AC-Delco supplied spin-on filter adapter available through GM Parts.

It was a Fram that blew off my '69 Dart slant six - but to be fair, it WAS -45 F with 20 weight oil. That was about the last Fram filter I've used. - back in 1972.

All filters are DESIGNED to conform to manufacturer's burst pressure specs. Doesn't mean every one off the line DOES. Poor quality control can make a compliant design into a total disaster - particularly if the design is to JUST conform to the specs.

So file a complaint with the FTC. If there is even a tiny bit of truth to what you say, Fram is in big trouble. But everyone reading this knows you won't file cause there aint no truth at all to your statements. Its all just legend and folklore.

Where did I say it was BECAUSE that filter split that it was the last Fram filter I used????? Nowhere - that's where.

It just happens that trip co-incided with my changing employment from the general repair garage that used Fram to a Toyota dealership - where Putolator built Toyota branded filters were available to me at a good price - and Toyota used the same PH8 style filter the "leaning tower of power" used.

Actually, for a while, CMI (Canadian Motor Industries - Now Toyota Canada) was supplying japanese built filters, and I used them.

And the filter did NOT split. It just "blew off". Took the threads right out of the base plate. SHOULD have blown the gasket out first, but didn't

You got the hot air part right. I have seen no evidence that Fram filters fail often enough to justify the hysteria you promote. If you buy a new car and use Fram filters on it and follow the car makers recommended service procedures, from the real evidence I have seen, you will have a statistically better chance of having your car run over by a bus than have it done in by the Fram filters.

You believe in what you think are facts without any real evidence to support them.

And yes I have authentic certified license to spot internet quacks. I downloaded it from the official international web site for study and identification of internet folklore and fiction.

-jim

No and that would not be very intelligent way to manage Quality Assurance. You don't need an 1980 air-cooled VW or a 1972 Dodge Dart and

Teardowns by whom? Are you talking about idiots on the internet cutting filters open? Or are you talking about the Quality Assurance department (that every engine manufacture has), which carefully examine all the engines that get replaced under warranty and sent back to the manufacturer?

In some cases the OEM filter is made by Fram. Did your internet sources for folklore fail to inform you of that?

Yes and that is exactly what an hysterical true believer would imagine. But where is there any believable evidence? The only thing I see evidence of is a phenomena I call folklore and mass hysteria.

The fact is that millions of Fram filters are used on engines under warranty. Some of those engines do fail and manufacturers do replace those failed engines and all engine makers do post-mortems to determine what causes failures. So if there really was any smoke or fire it would show up somewhere at some time in that process. But that is not where the evidence is coming from. The so called evidence is always somebody with an old beater that has deluded himself and is now trying to convince others that a Fram filter is the bogeyman out to get his engine.

-jim

There are several serious problems with your tale. The Fram filter folklore says the cans are the weak link and they blow apart. So you are contradicting what others have claimed. The force on the threads due to the mechanical advantage is really quite high just from tightening the filter by hand. You are suggesting the shell of the filter is really a whole lot stronger than what others have claimed.

Another problem with your story is you also have already related in the past posts how this engine clattered on cold starts. A known reason for such clatter is a sticky valve in the engine at the outlet of the filter that doesn't open until the oil pressure builds up and finally pop it open. This new tale you are now telling suggests that when it gets down to 45 below the valve which eventually opens at higher temps can stay permanently stuck. At any rate I don't see any evidence that clearly points to a defective filter. All the evidence I see points to an incompetent diagnosis of the problem.

-jim