Who was it who mentioned Fram oil filters and dropping oil pressure? (2025 Update)

Can you cite a source for this, Nate?

Sometimes the OPRV loses tension and the oil pressure drops. I have seen Ford mechanics pull out the spring, stretch it,and reinstall on the old 390/428 engines. That would often bring the oil pressure back up to spec.

Doesn't this seem self evident? I didn't specify a particualr "certain" size, so the statement could be interperted to mean particles somewhere between the size of an individual atoms and the size of the earth. Don't you agree that there are particles so small that they won't damage your engine? And if there are such particles, wouldn't it be a bad idea to trap these particles in the filter, since they would tend to clog up the fitler element and restrict oil flow?

Most engineering decisions are a compromise. In the case of an oil filter, removing a lot of very small relatively harmless particles reduces the life of an oil filter without any substantial compensating benefit. The actual size of the these non-harful particles will be dependent on the engine design (bearing clearances, materials, design life, etc.). I am sure there is always a size of particle that could be considerd harmless (or at least does so little harm that it is insignificant).

It seems to me that most light vehicle (i.e., passenger car) oil filters target particles larger than 10 to 20 microns. 20 microns seems to the most common target for decent filters. Some filters claim to remove particles as small as 10 microns (but at a reduced efficiency). For most car owners, I think a filter that removes 96% of particles 20 microns or larger in one pass is sufficient. Removing smaller particles might reduce wear but I doubt the difference would be significant or cost effective. If you change your oil per the vehicle manufacturer's recommendations (not Jiffy Lube's!) and use a decent quality fitler, internal engine wear is not likely to be a significant problem area. For large trucks and industrial equipment, a more robust filter system may be appropriate. For these applications there are special oil filtration systems available to remove very samll particles. I don't think these are cost effective for typical car owners.

Ed Ed

Ed

That is fine. "Saying I never had a problem with them of any kind and I don't use them" is different than saying "they will cause all kinds of problems including engine failure so I don't use them". The difference is one is honest and truthful the other is not.

-jim

The started out as an interest link but has turned into a whine and shouting match.

Facts learned:

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This guy changed the oil and an oil pressure problem went away. Had he gone to the Dealership and purchased the OEM filter it probably would have had the exact same result. Fram makes the OEM filter for Subaru. the on difference is the paint on the outside.

He has a defective engine with low oil pressure. How did it get that way? Probably due to some action he took on the basis of some stupid superstitious belief. I met a guy that actually believed that pouring sand in the intake of an engine was good for it.

-jim

The millions of properly running engines that use Fram oil filters are not having problems.

How about "I *have* had problems with Frams in the past, which switching to another filter brand solved, and therefore I no longer buy Frams" - is that "valid?"

Or are you going to call me a liar, asshole? Or accuse me of driving a "defective" car? Just STFU and go away, you annoying moron.

nate

You're an idiot. Please stop subjecting us to your idiocy.

nate

I believe that the ad copy for any good preoiler has this information, but I don't have time to find an example at the moment. maybe on CM's web site?

nate

You are ignorant.

You know you could have very easily and simply made a determination about whether the filter anti drain back valve was working. I suspect you didn't know how to do that or you didn't want to do that. Instead you chose to speculate and conjecture about what was happening. There isn't much evidence in your story to go on so I can see no good reason to believe your guess about the cause is correct.

-jim

Yeah A bunch of fellow story tellers on the internet. None of them ever saw your engine. And they are like you they wouldn't know what to look for if they had seen your engine.

I know from personal experience that the chrysler slant six did not have a problem with Fram filters. For one thing the engine itself had an anti drain back valve so by definition if your oil was leaking back from the oil filter the engine was not working as designed. But you did not have that problem. You just suppose that was the problem . There are a number of known mechanical problems that produce the exact symptoms you described. It wasn't the-miracle-of-the-fram-filter-removal that fixed your problem it was the removal of dirty oil and replacing it with clean oil that fixed your malfunctioning engine oil system.

There is no real evidence of any "known issues" The only evidence is a vocal minority of largely prejudiced people on the internet telling stories. The millions of engines using Fram filters are not developing the problems that vocal minority claims they all will. And of course a Fram filter is cheap. Most oil filters people put on cars are cheap. Probably every anti drain back valve in every filter you find in your FLAPS is molded in China and costs the manufacturer less than a dime a piece. Fram is not any different. There are $50 oil filters available if you want to buy something that is not cheap.

Fram makes more of the house brands than any other oil filter company.

No its silly statement you are saying Frams are better than Frams.

So your latest theory is that arguing with a fool makes you an idiot. Well that is better logic than anything else you have come up with.

-jim

On Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:39:29 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Looks like I wasn't clear, so let me say it a different way. You hear clatter (or whatever you deem oil-related bad sounds) when you start your car. You blame it on the filter anti-drainback not working right. Basically a dry filter. A simple test to prove that is to replicate the conditions with a dry filter when you do an oil change. If all else if equal - temperature and time shut down, you should hear the same sound. Personally, I always change my oil warm, and usually have it done and running again within 1/2 hour or so. If you only hear the clatter after the engine is shut down for say 12 hours, you would have to leave it shut down for 12 hours after the oil change to replicate that condition. Seems you would hear the same noise after the oil change. But it's not that simple. What if you don't hear the noise after changing in a dry filter? That might indicate the anti-drainback valve isn't the problem. Maybe the old filter was clogged and delayed pressure build-up at the parts being lubed. Maybe the old filter developed some sort of cavitation or airlock issue as it aged. Anyway, Mr White's case is just inconclusive. I've heard plenty of transitory "rackets" when starting engines that had nothing to do with oil. Not saying it wasn't the filter. Just inconclusive to me. Not taking a stand on the Frams because I don't use them. But it's not real hard to test filters yourself if you set down some test parameters on paper and follow them diligently. I never will, because I've not had lube issues on my cars. If I did, I'd probably just try a few different filters to see if that helped, as some here have done. And I never fool around soaking a filter or pulling the ECU fuse. Can you imagine the Jiffy Lube guys pulling ECU fuses? hehe. New can of worms there.

--Vic

Except I know of cases where the problem STARTED with an oil and filter change. And cases where filters were changed immediately thereafter and the noise went away (with another Fram filter, even). They don't ALL leak - but in my experience too many did years back (I'm talking '70s and '80s) - and I never found a reason to go back to using them myself, or when I had any say what was going onto customer's vehicles. I believe Canadian Tire had Fram making some of their filters in '75/ '76 and we had issues with them over the couple months I worked there on my return from Africa. The lube guys would do an oil change, and a couple days later the car was in the shop with complaints of the oil light taking too long to go out, or valve noise on startup.

When I ran the service bays at the Shell station ( I was shop foreman

- 6 bay garage) we didn't use Fram filters - Shell filters were Kralinator, I believe , and we'd get customers coming in complaining of oil light taking too long to go out, or valve noise on startup. Asked the customer when it started, and when they last had an oil change - could be the oil had broken down/gone thin / been fuel diluted etc. If the oil had been changed recently and the oil felt/smelt good we'd check the filter.

If the filter was orange we'd change it first.

USUALLY solved the problem.

At the Esso station I ran we used Atlas Filters - made IIRC by Purolator.

Then at Toyota we used the Toyota supplied filters (Purolator or WIX) and when we ran out Mopar/AutoPar filters which were also made at that time by Purolator. The Chrysler dealer up the road was pretty agressive with their wholesale pricing and we used their filters on all the non-Toyota vehicles we serviced.

I likely replaced a few non-Fram filters for the same problem - but definitely not very many and I could not tell you what brand or on what car. On Toyota 3K engines I remeber we had a lot of issues with lazy oil pressure lights - which were USUALLY caused by the infamous "Oil Pisser" switch. If the switch wasn't wet, the filter was the next thing we looked at (filter was base down) The 8R and 18R engines were the same. On the T engines the filter was horizontal and the filters were less critical. Same with the M series and the 20r and 22r engines. On these engines it was USUALLY the "oil pisser" switch when oil lights were slow going off. They all had solid lifters, so valve clatter was not an issue. On the 8 and 18R series, the hydraulic timing chain tensioners would complain very loudly on dry starts - lots of chain rattle and not infrequently broken chain guides. Funny, virtually NEVER had problems on vehicles we did all the service on The early F had a remote mounted filter, base up and didn't need an anti-drain valve. (the old "stovebolt" Chevy engine made under licence)

Back "in the day" we ALWAYS pulled the coil wire and cranked the engine 'till the oil light went out or the needle moved. it was POLICY. Then we got those darn integrated ignition units on the Toyota " A" series engines - no coil wire - so we soon had to back down on "policy" - but it was still recommended that the engine NOT be allowed to come up to speed before the light went out. Crank it, and if the engine started, shut it off and crank it again if the light didn't go out right away.

And of course you were there saw it all and made your 'correct' diagnosis.

Just what is your relationship with Fram??

No Chrysler made the correct diagnosis. And Chrysler engineers designed the engine so that what he supposes was happening can't happen.

I have used their filters for at least 40 years and never once seen any of the problems that various people are claiming are likely to happen with those filters.

But I'm not recommending Fram filters. I'm just sick and tired of seeing lies and superstitions and fantasy being passed off as fact and knowledge. An engine that is clean on the inside means whatever you are doing for oil changes is working. An engine that has sludge, gum or black goo on the inside means whatever you are doing for oil and filter change is not working. And that is pretty much all you need to know about oil changes.

If you take the typical modern engine and use the cheapest oil and filter and change it as the car maker advises you will be able to take that engine apart at 100K miles and find that the engine is still clean on the inside and you will be able to still see the factory cross hatch on the cylinder walls. The fact is most engines today will outlast the rest of the car. The door hinges, the glass, the upholstery, the suspension, the electrical system etc are all going to make you want to get rid of the car long before the engine will.

-jim

Your not keeping up with the folklore. Most of the Fram bashers I have read say that Fram made good filters back then. According to all the folklore I have read on the internet it was only after the companies ownership changed in the 90's that the filter became cheap and unreliable. Before that according to most folklorists they were good filters.

You missed the point of the post you were responding to for the second time.

But all of this is ancient history and not particularly useful to most people today. It may interest you to know that in the period from 1950's to the 90's almost every multigrade dino oil on the market gave inadequate protection if the engine oil temp exceeded 240F. That means if your engine overheated you were basically screwed. And the affect of heat on the oil was not temporary in most cases it was permanent. that means if you didn't change the oil immediately following the overheating incident you were doubly screwed. The fact that you have horror stories that revolve around engine lubrication problems from 30 years ago is not at all surprising. But what does this ancient history have to do with today?

OK so you have been superstitious for a long time. I have never seen a filter of any type cause problems in a clean engine. I've never seen a dirty engine that wasn't in a death spiral. The fact that you were very good at treating the symptoms and ignoring the root causes of problems is not very impressive.

That's because you are superstitious. You see and remember what you want to see and remember don't see and remember what you don't want to see and remember. Take the guy with the motocraft filter that had missing threads. That story till now was mostly forgotten. Had that been a story about a Fram filter, you would by now be able to google and find that story on 50 web pages. All I see is evidence that you are not the only one. There more than just you that predisposed to selectively remembering things.

Yes and this means what? Again all i see is someone who is only interested in symptoms not root causes. Foe example, take the case of an engine with hydraulic lifters. If the engine and oil is kept clean then the check valve in each valve lifter should keep the lifter filled while the oil is being changed. In a properly working engine you really shouldn't be getting valve clatter when you start the engine after the oil change. It is only in dirty and/or worn engines that lifters will bleed down wile you are doing an oil change.

Well that is mostly just superstition. There are plenty of engines that use cheap oil and filter and they get changed and started up after the oil change without any special procedure and the engine ends up lasting longer than the rest of the car. There is no evidence that your precautions would make any difference to the life of the engine.

-jim

Geez don't you guys ever get tired of saying my superstitions is supported by someone else who is equally superstitious. It is not as if there aren't plenty of repair shops run by people who aren't superstitious. How do you think Fram got to be the #1 oil filter manufacturer?

No if your fictional scenario would ever become reality it would be oil filter manufacturer that is liable. You are talking about someone who does not even allow any one to talk to him about a particular oil filter brand. He is just plain superstitious.

Honda filters are made by Fram.

And this proves that you can throw just about any irrelevant fact into the discussion???

-jim