2005 Avalon pricing question.

Since it's a first year model, it will be tough to negotiate too much off sticker. Check edmunds.com and get the invoice on the car and start negotiating from there.

The redesigned Sienna was firm MSRP the first year, and had a waiting list throughout the year. Given they did an attractive redesign of one of the ugliest cars on the road, I think you'll see a waiting list for the new Avalon, which means a full year of MSRP. I bought a new ES300 when it first came out, and it's clear to me that Toyota isn't the same company, as I ended up regretting jumping too soon. I learned it's best to wait until the 2nd year of a new model, or a redesigned model, otherwise you'll endure rattles and noises that haven't been worked out in manufacturing yet, not to mention the inflated price.

Don't regret your first year Lexus. My 2001 Avalon was the second year model and is still a rattle box.

Sorry to hear that... at least we know they'll run reliably for a long time. Ear plugs will fix the rest of it... ;-)

This month CR does a "Reliability by category" projection for new cars. Guess which one is the top "Upscale car"? Lexus IS300.

Worst one is the Jag X-type, surprisingly.

That's pretty funny that you say "Upscale car". I looked at the IS300 in

2002 before I bought the ES300. I sat in it and it looked like a stripped down 1978 Corolla inside. I guess they wanted the race-car basic sort of feel in there, but it was far from a $30k car, in my opinion. I also got the impression they dumbed it down inside for "homey", which I can only assume was their target buyer. Certainly wasn't an "upscale" product.

I can't really call mine reliable. Trunk opens intermittently. There is a TSB about it but I hate to let my idiot dealer touch the car except for oil changes which I feel obligated to have done there in case my engine sludges up. Brakes feel awful (dealer said from day one it is normal) and the VSC/ABS/Traction lights go on intermittently when driving down to highway every few months.

If it was an American car, it would have recalls for things that could cause engine fire, or loss of brakes, or other life-threatening things. Based on my experience with the 2002 ES300, I think Toyota is having some engineering and design problems in this decade, which is historically uncharacteristic. I can only hope that they get their act back together.

My 300M had only 1 recall and that was for replacing seatbelt bolts. The Avalon had a similar action item (non-recall "recall") to replace the fastener used for child safety seats. American cars are far more reliable than they used to be according to my experience and Consumer Reports. This is my 4 Toyota and last. My next car is likely to be from one of the domestic nameplates.

I wouldn't advise that. By coincidence, this news story came out today. Remember what I said about fires in American cars?

NEW YORK (CNN) - A federal investigation into cruise-control problems is underway in an estimated 3.7 million Ford F-150s, Ford Expeditions and Lincoln Navigators, auto safety regulators said Wednesday.

The possible defect in cruise-control mechanisms can cause a vehicle to catch on fire when the engine is off. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said it's looking at 1995-1999 and 2001-2002 F-150s and

1997-1999 and 2001-2002 Expeditions and Navigators.

A federal investigation into the same defect in the 2000 model year of the vehicles recently ended, with the NHTSA saying the problems with those automobiles were adequately dealt with by a Ford recall.

Ford recalled the 2000 vehicles on Jan. 27.

That only leaves Ford and GM. Chrysler is German now. I still do not buy your arguments. Markets are efficient. Toyota is gaining ground for a reason.

And Enron stock went up for a reason......... right until the truth came out and it collapsed. I'm exaggerating of course but Toyota quality is no where as good as it used to be and meanwhile the domestics have improved. Only the Europeans lag behind.

I'll agree with that statement in general. I still wouldn't be caught dead behind the wheel of an American car. Not because I don't think it's important to buy American, but because I value the safety of my family as a higher priority. I think my odds of getting home successfully are a bit better in a Toyota than in anything American. The real shame of it is that I think Americans can design and build a good product, they're just subject to the whims of a short-term mentality in the board rooms, too busy worrying about this quarter's bonuses and stock performance instead of long-term competitive strategy in the marketplace. The Japanese companies invest heavily in their long-term outlook. The difference shows.