any comp nerds in here?

Correction: "gets past their firewall..."

The 2-Wire modems that Qwest and SBC (and probably others...) use on their DSL do actually employ a wireless key by default. Although this configuration is not that common.

They could sue you for sure although I don't think many ISP's are going to sue their residential users considering they make a slim profit as it is and if they lost, they're out that much more.

And, it'd only take a lawsuit or two, probably just one... before the bad press would kill your ISP.

Taking your internet connection? Unless it's causing them a headache or they really think it's encroaching on their profit margin, they're unlikely to really care.

At least the ISP I work at is like this. Most in this valley are.

You're forgiven.

Why thank you, Father.

:-P

Natalie

Wrong. The internet itself is a network.

Wrong. How can you tell he was trying to access a home network rather than the internet?

Jeff

That's because there is no need to say that. The WiFi point is part of the network. And when you go into that, you are using parts of the network, including the part of the network that connects the WiFi router to the internet modem.

I would like you to go and explain to the judge why what he was doing was legal.

He had never been in the store. Your guess is wrong.

Jeff

The internet does not beloong to the guy who had the wireless router. The cuplrit was arrested for breaking into the home local area network via the wireless router for the purpose of hacking into a computer, not for using the internet.

Because I read the article (albeit some of the versions of the story where not exactly clear on that). The culprit was traveling around in his car trying to find a open wireless network AND an unprotected computer (no firewall and no password on the computer) attached to the network that he could snoop around in.

The law says that the it is illegal to break into a private network. The internet is public and if someone or some business sets up a wireless router with free internet access, that is not necessarily what the law was referring to when it was written. Since everyone is entitled to a jury trial, I bet that at least one juror would agree with me (criminal conviction must be a unanimous decision of all jurors).

In the other case in CA (not the one in FL) it was not clear whether the network was protected with a key or not. In any case, I think the guy could have beaten the wrap at trial, but since it was only a $400 ticket he just paid it. Please don't tell me that the police really understand computer networking enough to really understand whether it was illegal or not.

These are the only 2 cases that anyone could find about using a wireless internet connection to the internet. It happens millions of time every day without permission and no one is ever arrested. In both the cases discussed, the guys were accessing the networks from the cars, which is how they were caught. I think it would be a lot harder for the police to make a case if they were in their own home using an open wireless internet connection.

The people posting in this thread are employees of ISP's (gigantic telecom and cable companies who act a monopolies and charge outrageous prices). They are trying to extort money from consumers to fill their fat pockets.

The network one breaks into to use the internet from a wifi connection is a private network. The wifi router and the modem are part of that network, and if you break into the wifi (whether or not you need a password) and use the internet, your are also using the private network.

The internet is partly government funded, but the access is privately funded. Time Warner, Comcast, Verizon, AT&T and others have spent literally billions of dollars each to build the backbone of the internet and the connections to internet for users. In NYC and surrounding areas, there have been a lot of TimeWarner, Comcast and Verizon trucks and workers install Fiber Optic cables. I am sure neither the trucks or supplies were free, nor did the workers volunteer their time.

Yet it is clear that the internet is available for free use only under certain conditions. Like if you are costumer of the company (e.g., Starbucks) and the company has the appropriate type of contract with the company.

And a jurer not understanding how the internet works doesn't make stealing services legal or ethical.

So being able to be a case at trial makes it ethical or legal?

That's why there are laws and judges.

If you read the articles completely, you would have read that there are few others, maybe 3 or 4.

More accurate statement: People are rarely arrested.

Which doesn't make it any more ethical or legal.

Who in this thread is now or ever was an employee of a gigantic telecom or cable company? Not I. I worked for an dial-up ISP for a while, but I don't work there any more.

No, they are trying to sell a product, which no one is required to buy. If you want to use their product (internet access), legally and ethically, you have to buy it.

Jeff

Precisely. The person who owns the wireless router does not have the right to give away what he doesn't own.

Wrong. Please show where it said that the person was breaking into any computer on the router owner's network.

The person was using the router owner's network to access the internet.

Please cite a reference that backs this claim.

Jeff

These large telecom companies have been granted a "franchise" and exemption from anti-trust laws. That is the real crime.

That is a completely different question that would get decided in civil court if the telecom wanted to sue the customer for giving away his internet access. It is not a criminal matter, unless the customer resells it to make money.

None of which makes it right to steal their services.

Jeff

It is a criminal matter on the part of the person stealing the service, however.

Jeff

This is about a guy that bought a wireless router but logged onto his neighbor's same brand wireless router, he secured it instead of his own and didn't realize what he had done until months later when he hardwired up a computer and tried to network it to his others. Funny story,

Yeah. Unfortunately, the technology is so complex that we don't really understand it. I certainly don't understand all of the networking technology. I understand more than I need to do my stuff, but not that much more.

All the people who were hijacking the author's signal will just hijack the router he was hijacking. And the guy who whose signal will be hijacked won't have a clue what happened.

This is another reason to make sure your password is set: This almost guarantees that you are using your router and no one else is. Imagine if the person who bought the router that was being hijacked when out and bought Verizon's fastest Fios service because his was so slow (because it wasn't his and everyone was sharing one wifi router). And then he called back Verizon and said that there is no improvement in service. It happens.

I find it funny that the author concluded the that the other WiFi router was bought at Staples. Best Buy, Circuit City, OfficeMax, PC Richards, and many other sell the same brands of routers and LynkSys is a major brand.

Jeff

I actually did this intentionally. Another neighbor, who I warned about his unsecured router, did nothing for a couple of weeks. In the mean time, my daughter's laptop continually hooked up to his network rather than mine due to proximity of her bedroom to their house. I installed a WEP password on his wireless, which he was not using at that time, so as to prevent my daughter's computer from grabbing his signal. I used just a series of ones. Several weeks later, I attempted to log into his system and found that he'd changed the password. Stubborn fool finally got the message.

Correct.