ford developing hybrid 300% more efficient than toyota

Hydraulic cylinders? Is that something like using compressed air as a storage device?

everyone and his grandmother has something revolutionary coming out in a few years from now

Something possibly coming late 2008 is not exciting

The article I read said that the technology was being developed by the EPA and was being transferred to Ford. The hydraulic technology's biggest advantage is in vehicles that to a lot of start and stops and the weight of the hydraulic tanks make it more useful in heavier vehicles like trucks than in light cars. The technology will be tested by UPS and in garbage trucks, which are heavy and do a lot of starts and stops. A drawback to the system is that vehicles get worse mileage than their conventional counterparts on highways because of the added weight being carried, something that could be a drawback for consumer use, where lower highway mileage might be a disincentive to purchase.

Nice!

EPA is a research leader in the application of hydraulics in vehicles. Hydraulic hybrid technology uses a hydraulic energy storage and propulsion system in the vehicle. This hydraulic system captures and stores a large fraction of the energy normally wasted in vehicle braking and uses this energy to help propel the vehicle during the next vehicle acceleration. The hydraulic system also enables the engine to operate more efficiently when it is needed.

Hydraulic hybrids draw from two sources of power to operate the vehicle

- the diesel or gasoline engine and the hydraulic components. In other words, a typical diesel-powered or gasoline powered vehicle can be fitted with hydraulic components as a secondary energy storage system. The primary hydraulic components are two hydraulic accumulator vessels (a high-pressure accumulator capable of storing hydraulic fluid compressing inert nitrogen gas and a low-pressure accumulator) and one or more hydraulic pump/motor units.

Benefits of Hydraulic Technology. Hydraulic drivetrains are particularly attractive for vehicle applications that entail a significant amount of stop-and-go driving, such as urban delivery trucks or school buses. A major benefit of a hydraulic hybrid vehicle is the ability to capture and use a large percentage of the energy normally lost in vehicle braking. Hydraulic hybrids can quickly and efficiently store and release great amounts of energy due to a higher power density. This is a critical factor in maximizing braking energy recovered and increasing the fuel economy benefit. While the primary benefit of hydraulics is higher fuel economy, hydraulics also increase vehicle acceleration performance. Hydraulic hybrid technology cost-effectively allows the engine speed or torque to be independent of vehicle speed resulting in cleaner and more efficient engine operation.

Future of Hydraulics. Hydraulic hybrid systems create a unique opportunity to optimize engine operations. EPA has produced research concept vehicles that demonstrate the hydraulic technology. One concept vehicle is an urban delivery truck that uses hydraulic "launch assist." This delivery truck retains its conventional engine and transmission, but adds on a hydraulics package optimized for fuel economy. The next generation of hydraulic vehicles involves fully integrating hydraulic technology. In this configuration, the "full" hydraulic hybrid replaces the conventional drivetrain with a hydraulic drivetrain and eliminates the need for a transmission and transfer case. Using the full hydraulic drive in conjunction with EPA's clean diesel combustion technology is projected to improve fuel economy even more.

EPA also has achieved major breakthroughs in designing hydraulic accumulators and pump/motors to be more efficient, smaller, and lighter for motor vehicle applications, which will help improve fuel efficiency. EPA currently has cooperative research and development agreements with several private sector partners to further the development of hydraulics. (For additional information, see Partnerships.)

It's an interesting article and thank you for calling it to our attention but I have some trouble believing the claims.

Batteries are already in the neighborhood of 80% efficient. If the hydraulic storage mechanism was somehow 100% efficient (and that's not possible), that would make the hydraulic hybrid just 25% more efficient than an electric hybrid, all other things being equal.

It should also be a simple thing to add an external AC charger to a contemporary electric hybrid, making it possible for short trips to be entirely "alternative fuel" trips (e.g., the electricity that fills the batteries could come from coal - boo!, nuclear, solar, wind or whatever). Increases in battery performance or capacity would be easily integrated into an electric hybrid system. It would probably be somewhat more complicated to "charge" the hydraulic hybrid off household AC. With an AC-chargeable electric hybrid, some users would only very rarely need to visit a gas station. You could even use a timer to get off-peak rates for your power.

Electric motors and generators are also, as far as I know, fairly efficient. I once worked at a power company and one of the high-voltage AC engineers told me that their generators were about 97% efficient, based on shaft input. Again, a 100% efficient hydraulic system would be only very marginally better than current hybrid technology.

As it is, hybrids on the highway have to build their electric energy as they go along and they do this by using the gas engine in the most efficient way possible. As it is, electric hybrids can only marginally outperform normal cars on extended highway runs (which now have 5- or 6-speed transmissions to help optimize highway travel). I don't see the hydraulic hybrid doing much better than electric hybrids on the highway. Gas engine efficiency will be the limiting factor. With its high profile, large weight and fat tires, it's very hard to believe a pickup with a gas engine running at its optimum efficiency is going to get anywhere near 60mpg.

If there was a way for the hydraulic hybrid to outperform the electric hybrid, it would be in terms of speed of "charge/discharge" of the energy storage mechanism. I believe that regenerative braking is limited by how much current can be generated and handled by the electrical system. Hard braking might probably overload the regenerative charging system (and the mechanical brakes then come into play - kinetic energy is lost as waste heat). Could be that the hydraulic system can absorb braking energy more rapidly and wouldn't have this drawback. Then whether or not the hydraulic hybrid gave you 300% better performance would depend on your exact duty cycle. Your mileage may vary. ;-) This is not going to be the situation on highway cruising so, again, 60mpg seems very far-fetched.

I got a kick out of "with those kinds of numbers, small vehicles as we know them may become obsolete." If a 60mpg truck is possible, I want a 120mpg car!

Yes. Hydraulic fluid is used to transfer energy to the accumulators, which use a compressible gas to store the energy.

Exactly. When I worked in the semi conductor industry, new technology had to look 100 times better than current technology or it wouldn't be worth pursuing because by the time it was perfected the old technology would be much better. Current hybrid technology will be better in 2008.

If Ford and GM was obliged to drill for oil as a prerequisit to selling vehicles they'd stop peddling backwards and come up with something for real. I can't believe the EPA is fu*king around too. 'nuff said.

Why, so you can get run over in you little 120 MPG cars buy one of those trucks, that buyers prefer today, that can get 60 MPG ? Besides once all vehicles can get really high fuel economy the price of gas will double or triple to maintain the profit margins for the oil speculators. ;)

mike hunt

Get real, there is no other fuel on the market, or near to coming to market, that can come anywhere close to replacing gasoline as a motor fuel in the next 50 years, none. All ANY of the alternate fuels can do is REDUCE the need for MORE gasoline in the interim, period. Anybody who thinks otherwise is a prim candidate to buy that bridge in Brooklyn ;)

mike hunt

I prefer not to fund terrorists or tyrannical regimes, enlarge our trade deficit or contribute to global warming. That's where your money is going. Enjoy that GT, your grandchildren will enjoy the consequences.

AC-chargeable

transmissions

According to the article I read, highway fuel consumption is the same or slightly higher with the hydraulic hybrid because it stores energy only when braking.

Hydrogen derived from methane and stored in an absorbant material instead of compressed. Fuel cells instead of internal combustion engines. It's all here now. Sources say the stumbling block is the cost. I say what the heck is another 5 grand tacked on a 30 grand vehicle? New houses around here are 1/2 mil and up. What's another 10% tacked on for solar cells? My wife and I decided we're going to do it and the heck with worrying about payback. I switched from chemically treating my pool to making chlorine on-sight (also makes hydrogen by the way) and the system does work. Not only is it cost effective ($15 a month in electricity versus 200 pounds of solid chlorine at $2.00 per pound) the unit shocks the water continually (another savings of about $150 in chlorine specific to shock). How difficult is it to operate? If you can turn a little dial it's not complicated at all. We can get away from gasoline and it's cousin diesel entirely but we can't get away from petroleum so fast because it's used for making stuff we get our hands on every day. But as far as using compressed air that's a joke.

But alas you too are funding terrorists or tyrannical regimes, enlarging our trade deficit, just as you did when you bought any foreign car and are contributing to global warming WHENEVER you drive any vehicle, if you believe that is here your money is going. ;)

Never said the was NO available fuels. You may want to reread the part that says no fuel that can come anywhere close to replacing gasoline as a motor fuel in the next 50 years, none. All ANY of the alternate fuels can do is REDUCE the need for MORE gasoline in the interim. ;)

mike hunt

It is always so interesting to see prognoses about major changes

There are so many cocurrent events helping alternative power alternatives along

Price of fuel is a major factor It is only recently price became really noticable

In those few years some major breakthroughs have happened so I guess the alternative powersources will begin to flourish and more quickly than you expect

If you can buy a car that has less - a lot less - moving parts than most current cars Car that can last a lot longer with a lot less maintenance the choice is simple Only thing really stopping the change is production capacity

Obviously the road is not completely clear but one thing is for certain that the next car you will by will have changed more in a short time than ever before you have made a buy

How quickly the major changes will happen is hard to predict

One thing is for certain that the last decade has been one of experiments and dabbling at alternatives

The coming decade will see a lot of change and real productions

In 10 years time we will probably not be thinking if we buy a new type of car but when if you have not already got one by then

Some how I think this 300% number is a marketing ploy rather than a reality. Anyone think a bulky UPS truck or F-150 will be more efficient by 300% than a Toyota hybrid anything? If the EPA is involved, the numbers are already off. Prius gets 60mpg according to the EPA. Hah! Try maybe a more realistic 44 mpg as an average (by their owner's forums).

Nice try Ford. Bringing back all your laid-off workers to build these?

(shhh!!!...a birdie told me chevy is bringing out a 400% better model as well)

Mack

What materials are you using for your electrodes?

What materials are you using for your electrodes? ________________________________________

Solid platinum. Not plated. Are you interested in doing the same or are you already up to speed?

Mark_