New brakes

Hello,

I recently took my 2004 4Runner (SR5--2WD) in for a 30,000 mile tune-up to the Toyota dealership. While changing my oil and rotating my tires, they informed me that the front brakes were 90% gone.

Being somewhat naive and uninformed about the mechanics of these parts, I was wondering if someone here could fill me in on the details. The brake pedal feels like it may be a bit low, but I haven't noticed any other signs that they may be 90% depleted. They stated the brakes needed to be totally replaced--not just the pads. This will cost me somewhere between $150-$200.

Is this sort of service normal for a car with 30,000 miles on it? Is this something I can inspect myself to verify that this service is needed?

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Reply to
G Ford
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It is "possible" that your pads need to be replaced after 30,000 miles if you do a lot of in-town driving and also depending on your driving habits. It is extremely unlikely if you do mostly highway driving.

Obviously, brakes don't wear out unless you use them, and so it is not directly related to the number of miles you drive. It is possible that if the brakes are 90% worn that you will not notice any particular problem..

However, most places will do a free inspection, so you might want to get another opinion. Brake pads are designed to make a lot of noise when the reach the end of life, before you are in immediate danger of them failing.

Reply to
Mark A

That price would cover replacing the pads and turning the rotors -- It would not cover rotor replacement or caliper rebuild/replacement. Buy the OEM pads for $40 and find someone to replace them before the remaining 105 is gone and you need to then replace the rotors too.

Reply to
Wolfgang

As others have pointed out, brake pad wear is directly related to driving conditions and driving style.

There are a couple of ways to check the wear on your front brakes. Open the hood and check the brake fluid level in the master cylinder reservoir. It is a translucent plastic container with a black rubber cap on the driver's side of the firewall. If the brake fluid level is near the "low" mark on the reservoir, then the pads and/or shoes are worn. Note that a high level does not necessarily mean the pads are not worn because the dealer service department may have topped off the fluid.

The correct method to check remaining brake pad life is to remove the front wheels and measure the brake lining thickness. If the thickness on the inner or outer pad is less than 2 mm, then they need replacement.

$150-$200 sounds very reasonable to replace the pads. This is not a "complete" replacement because it probably does not include rotor replacement at that price (if pad wear is caught early, rotors do not necessarily have to be replaced).

Reply to
Ray O

You can tell just by eyeballing the parts, keep in mind the 90% is a "by eye" figure, not a measured figure, unless they took the pads off and used a micrometer and did the math (unlikely) If you look at the rotors you can see if there's any grooving of the rotor, this is caused by the pad wearing all the way down then you get metal to metal contact and a grinding sound.

In my opinion they should have taken you into the service bay and pointed out the problem, this is very easy to explain to an untrained person and to show them what a new brake pad looks like compared to a used one.

You have to take any kinds of recommendations you get during these oil-change tire-rotate services with a grain of salt, no matter who does them. Most shops use oil changes the way the supermarket uses milk - they put coupons in the paper for $19.95 oil changes, which barely cover the parts and certainly not the labor - in hopes of getting a shot at the more profitable business like brakes. A brake job is a very easy job to do, very fast to do, and they can put their junior shop people on it since it is not a complicated job.

I would be leery of "turning" or grinding the rotors. If the rotors are in good condition they do not need to be turned, and turning removes material. Usually rotors that are grooved enough to need turning are so deeply grooved that you might as well replace them.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

Lots of good advice above.

Very unlikely you've consumed 90% of the brake lining thickness unless you have the habit of resting your left foot on the brake pedal while driving, or drive lots of hills and never downshift on long grades, or other not-the-best driving technique. Most likely is that the guy who wrote that gets a kickback when the work comes in.

$200 won't totally replace all of any vehicle's brake parts. Do you have the recommendation in writing? I'm perverse enough to take it back to the stealership, get a written detailed price for all the work, take your truck elsewhere and get actual measurements of the remaining brake pad thickness, and if it isn't reasonably near 90% gone, report them to your state's auto repair complaint office, often in the Attorney General's office.

Next time, find a good local independent repair shop to do your repair work. Expect the price to be less. You only need to return to the stealership for warranty repair items. Any licensed auto repair shop can do all your maintenance and satisfy the warranty requirements. (Much can be done yourself, also, if correctly documented.)

Ken

Reply to
Ken Shelton

I just got a quote from my local South Houston dealer for $210 per axel. That was turning the rotors and new pads. Most of the cars I have owned did not require rotors to be turned unless they were grooved (as stated earlier in another post). I will purchase new pads and do the labor..... unless someone tells me I need a super doper thingy tool of some kind. Question, Do all the 03 4Runners use the same brake pads and rotor? I'm getting conflicting answers from the part stores.

Rob

03 4Runner 4x4 30K miles
Reply to
eddie

You do not need any special service tools to replace brake pads on an '03

4Runner. A metric socket set, C-clamp, and some wheel bearing grease or anti-seize are sufficient.

I always recommend OEM brake pads and rotors because of the large variance in the quality and performance of aftermarket brake parts. Some aftermarket brake parts work well, some do not. Rather than spending a lot of money to experiment, I just stick to OEM.

Reply to
Ray O

I've regreted buy non OEM brake (and ignition) parts - Yota often has sales on pads or buy from mail order OEM parts place. You'll need anti-squeal (usually orange) stuff and special grease for the holding pins.

Reply to
Wolfgang

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Reply to
eddie

You're welcome! Good luck with the work.

Reply to
Ray O

Costant driving in creeping traffic is no good on a vehicle designed to operate at faster speeds. When you drive with your foot on the brake in creeping traffic, you wear down the pads. If this is something you do everyday, then expect your pads to wear quickly. If you have an automatic there is really no way to avoid this problem. Us stick shift users can use low gears and clutch, though a clutch can wear quicker with constant use. With Toyota, most owners will agree that OEM parts work better on Toyotas than a brake pad by Raybestos or some other quality brake part manufacturer. I tried them on my truck once and they clanked everytime I stepped on the pedal, meaning an improper fit.

My 2 cents

Reply to
Brad Taylor

Thanks everyone. Great insight.

Reply to
G Ford

When I purchased OEM brake pads, they came with two small bags containing black grease? what are they? where I apply them to?

Reply to
wenmang

Reply to
Paul.

Read the (friendly) instructions that came in the box before you do anything with the mystery black stuff, or call the parts people and ask. They sold the pads, they'd better know.

As an educated guess it may well be the special high-temp grease for the caliper slides, but it could also be a one-use packet of anti- vibration compound. Some cars have a propensity for brake squeal, so they invented a solution.

The brake-quiet compound I've seen is usually a blue RTV silicone, but that's just coloring... It could just as easily be made black. I usually see it sold in 'bulk' in an 8-ounce squeeze 'glue bottle' with a dispenser tip, good for a few dozen brake jobs.

You slather a medium-thick layer on the back surface of the brake pads (NOT the friction side!) right before you slide them in (being careful to not get it all over the place). The compound sets up to a semi-hard rubbery compound that holds the pad to the caliper/piston (raise the mass and lower the vibration frequency) and damps the vibrations to cut down on squealing.

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Reply to
Bruce L. Bergman

"Paul." wrote in news:z9kYf.2519$qd.2504@fed1read08:

The black grease is probably MolyKote M77 or similar. It's used in specific locations on the backs of the pads and the anti-squeal shims that go on the backs of the pads. A GOOD shop manual will give these locations (Haynes does not count). (I have never personally seen a box of OEM pads come with any sort of instructions.)

This grease is used whether or not you have fixed calipers or the floating kind, as the vibration dynamics of the pads against the discs are identical in either case.

Not all pads come with M77-type grease. When I encounter this situation, I use Permatex 133H aluminum anti-seize in those locations. Slide pins should use Sil-Glyde or other rubber-compatible grease to prevent deterioration of the rubber sealing boots.

Do not use brake silicone as recommended by some. This is a fudge-fix used in an attempt to avoid correctly servicing the brakes the way they ought to be. Correctly serviced brakes using OEM pads will NOT squeal under any circumstances unless there is a congenital problem with the brakes. Such born-in propensities are usually eventually covered by TSBs.

Some aftermarket "long life" pads, in addition to being too hard for the application, are too thick as well. This precludes the use of the factory's anti-squeal shims, so many garages will simply leave them off (they can cost $10 each), then they use the silicone goop to correct for their obtuseness.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

"TeGGeR®" wrote in news:Xns979B2B03425D0tegger@207.14.113.17:

To clarify: I meant the rubber goop smeared on the backs of the pads in a misguided attempt at stopping noise.

Reply to
TeGGeR®

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