New initiate to OIL CHANGE CLUB

All the engines in Consumer Reports' test were Chevy 3.4L V-6s. In

1996, were they built to the same tolerances as they had been built long before? If so, why did GM change its oil viscosity recommendations for them and prohibit straight 30 weight in 1996? Please, not the usual excuse about increasing the fuel economy. ;)

Can you cite anything showing that synthetic significantly improves gas mileage? If anybody calls 1-800-ASK-MOBIL and asks if Mobil 1 synthetic improves fuel economy, they'll immediately say that it does not. Why should any other synthetics of the same viscosity range be different in this respect?

Which is amazing coming from someone who has only changed the oil himself one time in his life.

Significantly? No, only about 1-2% better mileage on average. For some, there is no increase in gas mileage, but if you have a late model engine that has not been abused (rings seated properly) then you will see a slight improvement.

Given that using synthetic oil is not a significant increase in cost (the TOTAL cost of a 5 quart jug of Mobil 1 at Wal-Mart is $25), even a 1-2% increase in mileage will go a long way to making up the cost differential between synthetic and conventional oil given the price of gas these days.

I can never understand why some people get so upset about people spending so little money to ensure that their car performs well and lasts longer.

I didn't think he was belittling me, but it does appear as if his mind is made up!

I dispose of my used motor oil at WalMart. They take it and don't charge a fee. I buy my motor oil at Auto Zone, WalMart, NAPA or where ever the price is the best.

I have been changing my own oil for over 40 years. However, if you look at the difference between the 10 minute oil change places and the cost of 5 quarts of oil and a filter, it almost makes sense to let them do it.

The company vehicles I used to drive are done by the 10 minute oil places. Company requirements.

What makes you think I've only changed oil myself once?

Jack

Built_Well has only changed his oil one time in life, and very recently. I think he is in his 30's or 40's. He posted in a thread for at least 6 months, asking hundreds of questions before trying it. Check out this thread title.

But... my car doesn't HAVE any emissions system....

--scott

No it doesn't. It's not just about cost. Those places often damage your vehicle, they sell services that are not only unneeded, but often not even performed when you do pay for them.

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Retired VIP, where have I attacked or belittled Ray O, as you say? I have not done so. I respect Ray's advice very much. Ray is a Toyota expert who has helped many, many people over the years in this group.

Once again, I'm detecting religious tension in the group. Retired VIP, I think Christians like myself and Jews like you should do the best to get along with each other, not belittle each other or snipe at one another, as you have just done towards me. And you sniped at me in an especially egregious manner.

I respect Jews as long as Jews respect Christians, and vice versa.

I also respect individuals of all sexual preferences: bi, hetero, and gay, as long as they don't snipe at each other. Retired VIP, you and Mark A. are expert snipers, and snipers are a group of folks I do not respect.

Retired VIP, you may be retired, but you still have a lot to learn, my friend.

snip

You caught me. I didn't think it showed. I try so hard to fit in with all the good homos and bi's but it is so hard....But it is good to know that you consider me an expert sniper. I'm sure Mark would like to thank you as well.

hawhawhaw.

I'm a member of a Friends Meeting that believes in Christ. I think that makes me a Christian.

Next time you ask someone for advise either take it or don't but don't argue with them.

Jack

This is not the first time that Built_Well has claimed that people who post on this newsgroup are Jews, especially people who he does not like. His comments about Jews are thinly veiled anti-Semitic rants which should be abhorred by everyone on this forum.

I think it is time for everyone to ignore this bigoted person and ignore his posts.

1-2% is:

a) way too little to be statistically significant in real-life driving, but maybe it can be measured that accurately with a car running on a dynomometer.

b) way too much to be true.

I can never understand why some people pay more to get nothing more, as is the case with AMsoil versus other synthetics. AMsoil is like bottled drinking water, which is worse than tap water.

I have never recommended that anyone ever use Amsoil. Never.

I would recommend Mobil 1, Pennzoil Platinum Synthetic, and other synthetics that API approved.

Then you don't have to worry about any oil's effect on the emissions system ;-)

Now that the fireworks are over, I just wanted to point out *again* that lots of Amsoil formulations contain no more than 0.08 percent of ZDDP, which is the same percentage of ZDDP found in API-certified oils.

So SMS was mistaken when he said that the Wikipedia entry on Amsoil that describes a reason why some Amsoil products are not API-certified was a "bald-faced lie" (SMS's inflammatory words).

And if you really want to stay with an API-certified oil because of some worry about the catalytic converter receiving too much phosphorous (in the ZDDP), Amsoil's XL line of oils are all API-certified. You can even see the API star symbol on the front of the XL bottles imaged on their web site.

By the way, I was mistaken when I said Walmart went to Amsoil asking to carry its products. Amsoil went to Walmart offering to provide Walmart with a private branded oil, but Walmart wanted to carry the Amsoil brand, so Amsoil had to turn Walmart down. Amsoil didn't want to hurt the sales of its nationwide network of distributors. This was about 12 years ago.

Like I said, I wish Amsoil had said yes to Walmart, because I'm sure the oil (which consistently turns up lower engine wear numbers than Mobil 1, Havoline, Castrol, etc.) would be priced a lot cheaper if it were at Walmart.

Some locally franchised chains like CarQuest, Murray's, etc., do carry Amsoil, but apparently only because select CarQuest franchisees have individually made deals with local Amsoil sellers, not with Amsoil headquarters, which has a policy of not selling to any chain of stores numbering more than 12--to protect its sellers.

I believe Royal Purple also used to be marketed and sold in much the same way as Amsoil, until Royal Purple decided to forsake its nationwide network of distributors/sellers and embrace big chains.

This was SMS's quote:

SMS wrote:

Actually, the explanation came directly from Amsoil.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Selbrede, Byron" To: "' snipped-for-privacy@pinn.net'" Subject: RE: Technical Service Contact Form Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 16:18:15 -0500

"Actually it's the amount of phosphorus that is regulated-- but that is directly related to the amount of zinc that can be used as they are combined as zinc dithio phosphate (ZDP). This is only regulated in 2 viscosity grades, 5W30 and 10W30. Other than the Series 7500, AMSOIL lubes all contain more ZDP than can be used in an API licensed oil. For examples of our ZDP levels refer to data sheets for AMO, ARO, AMF or AMV."

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I'd avoid Amsoil. There's no advantage in terms of wear or performance versus a synthetic oil that you can purchase at a regular store, and no reason to pay more for Amsoil.

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You're simply mistaken SMS. When it comes to engine wear, there are advantages of synthetics from RLI, Amsoil, and Pennzoil Platinum over other synthetics. I will choose to accept world-renowned tribologist Terry Dyson's studied analysis over your opinion. Terry has the thousands of Used Oil Analysis reports to prove it. What do you have?

You might want to limit inflammatory words like "bald-faced lie," which you used 6 days ago to lambast the Wikipedia entry on Amsoil. As I said, your inflammatory remark was made 6 whole days ago, and that may have precipitated our descent into rhetoric as opposed to reasoned, respectful debate.

By the way, that email you're using to support your mistaken position is dated 2001, which is 7 years ago. Whether or not the email actually came from Amsoil, it is way out-dated, as you seem to not have known that the newer ASL 5w-30 and SO 0w-30 formulations do not overstep the API's limit for ZDDP.

No one has ever presented any data that shows this. Sure you can find non-engine wear tests such as Amsoil's infamous "Four-Ball Wear Test" but where is the _real_ engine wear testing? It simply doesn't exist.

I will choose to

As I stated, there are no actual engine wear tests that compare the different synthetics. Oil analysis reports are very different than engine wear tests.

Actually I wouldn't want to limit them, because they perfectly describe the Wikipedia entry on Amsoil. Amsoil got themselves into this whole situation by initially lying about why they didn't have API certification, creating a fictional account of huge costs for testing, worries about someone stealing their formula, etc.

As I said, your inflammatory remark

In fact, I simply explained the real reason that Amsoil's employee presented as to why many of their oils are not API certified.

Then they should get them certified, if they are not already.

Here's the bottom line:

1. Never use a non-API certified oil in your vehicle.

1. There is no advantage to using Amsoil's API certified oil versus Mobil 1 or other synthetic available from retail stores at a lower price. If you can get Amsoil cheaper, then go for it.

2. No company has ever shown an MPG advantage to synthetic oil in real-world, controlled testing.

1. Do not exceed the oil change interval specified by the manufacturer.

2. Synthetic oil is a good idea if your engine is operated in extremely cold temperatures, or if you have a high performance engine, but it provides absolutely no benefit if you're driving in temperate climates and your engine is not a high performance engine.