OT bush bozos at it again

You better turn in your cell phone, your computer, your modem, your car, your credit cards and anything else that has a hint of electronics in it that could be used to track you.

How often do you use a passport? This sounds like a good way to begin and shore up our borders. You certainly don't have to get one if you don't ever go overseas. Did you complain like this when Hillary and Bill Clinton were pushing nationalized health care down our throats? You would have lost a huge sense of privacy and freedom then.

and money and health care.

Of course...hell, all that worrying about getting financially devastated by a medical happening just keeps your mind sharp and young...

Wouldn't want to have National health care operating and let your mind relax and maybe enjoy your retirement, those topless bars and similar decadent evils... Gee...

I have health insurance. Within the last three years I had a major operation. The total bill including hospital stay was over $20000. I had a little over $1000 out of pocket expense. I'm willing to pay that for medical. I don't expect free health care, I don't want free health care because I know what comes with free health care. I'm a believer in the saying, you don't get something for nothing.

".dbu." wrote: snip

Of course..."There ain't no free lunch" naturally,

But your health insurance is costly, it's costly because not everybody carries it and yet they get 'some' medical help, so those who 'do' pay for insurance are carrying those who don't (or cannot).

Here in Canada we have the equivalent of a state where 'everybody' is carrying medical insurance...which makes it as cheap as it can get...

You would agree that if -everyone- in the US was forced to carry medical insurance then your premiums would be much less than they are now?...seems only common sense to me...

Wait. Don't try that rational *hit here. What are you thinking man? And don't think they don't know where you live. Next time you're in a crosswalk, it'll be Mike Hunt in that Crown Vic drawing a bead on ya.

I haven't the slightest idea what the hell you're talking about, do you?

Sorry...I see your point now...bit foggy there, just awakened from a nap!...

Very logical, but my thinking is it would be cheap for a few and expensive for the vast majority. Details are missing. How would they force someone to pay for medical coverage, taxes? Many of those without medical coverage are homeless or perhaps a notch or two above, so how do they pay? What happens to the middle, do they pay more to support those who can't? Why would this be fair? And we have to ask the doctors, do they work for the government in this plan? How do they get paid. Many questions about a national health care plan that needs answers. I can also see how it can be fraud heavy and then who pays for that? Nope, count me out.

The system would be huge, with the government involved. It would be a mess especially if the democrats hammered out a plan. No thanks, I'll stick with my own health plan with Blue Cross.

Why?...that's what we have here in Canada now isn't it? Our taxes pay for our gov't supplied services and we pay taxes more or less equally so the cost to each of us is minimal. Hell, our taxes pay for maintaining our police forces, military, road upkeep, all gov't supplied services actually so what's wrong with adding another service like medical coverage?...it's just another of the perks of citizenship isn't it?

Of course...here you cannot opt for "no coverage"

It's included in their taxes, just as any other service, of course if they're living on welfare (the dole you call it?) then they don't pay taxes but can still get medical services, they're human, you cannot deny them medical service just because they're poor.

Just as those who make more money pay higher taxes a higher percentage of their taxes go toward maintaining the Medicare system.

They get paid by people appointed to handle that chore...pretty well all medical procedures are tagged with a price, seems simple to me...

Of course that can and does happen...but there are checks and balances in place to combat unscrupulous people...there's fairly stiff penalties in place to enforce -honesty- :)

Ok...if you say so...I think it works fine myself...Canadians go all through their lives never giving health care a thought...just as most people (even Americans) never give a thought to highway maintenance...see?...same thing exactly...

Here we don't pay taxes equally. The taxes you mention, are they federal income taxes they take out for medical ? How do you gage the increases per year for medical costs? Or are they buried with the other costs of government? If not, how then do you know it's such a good deal? I have heard other Canadians are not so happy with your system.

So if you feel ill say Monday morning....you call your local clinic up and request an appointment, do you get to see a doctor that day? How about if you wake up with a tooth pain, can y ou get in to see a dentist right away? If I needed elective surgery (not an emergency), how long would I expect to wait? Because it's elective surgery it could still be very serious and time limited so it is still important to get in ASAP, right?

Of course not. The difference is those without here in this country get treated regardless, but they may have to go to a hospital that's not so close to where they live, they don't have much choice like downtown general ect. In emergencies I don't think any hospital will turn away anybody, but I'm not sure about that, seems like that would not be in the best interest of the medical community, turning away emergency patients.

So up in Canada if you say make $100000 a year wages you would get taxed at 30 percent, and if you earned $30000 year you would get taxed at 15 percent as an example? Are those percent close?

So you have political appointees governing wages for the doctors? Yuk!

Most of us do too, never giving a thought until one day you get hit with a serious illness. My main concern is would I have been able to have obtained the same level of care that I received almost three years ago for the big C as I would have under a universal health plan. I think we all understand there can be a great variation in the skill of doctors especially surgeons and I want to know I'm getting the best and not someone just out of medical school honing his/her skills on me. If we don't have a choice then more likely that's what many will get.

How much of a choice in selecting a specialist do you get?

My take on your system up there is much like being in the military here where if we have a runny nose we would go to the dispensary and see someone perhaps not a doctor. If we have a serious illness we take what they assign us, hospital and doctor, surgeon ect. Simply put, but is that somewhat how it works or am I all wrong?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful to you or the Canadian health system, but I am trying to get nuts and bolts types of answers. This issue will no doubt come up in the U.S. at some point in time. I think our system could use some administrative streamlining. That alone could save $$.

Thanks for your comments.

snip

Same here, the more you make the more you're taxed (more or less)

Well, I'm not a financial wizard by any means but all expenses are taken from the general coffer which is basically Federal, yearly increases for each individual gov't service is, I suppose, negotiated by itself but I have no idea about "what kind of a deal we're getting" etc.

As to people not being happy with this or that system, I say, well, why don't you fix it or go to some country where you'll be happier?...seems silly to live where you don't want to, especially now-a-days...seems to reflect poorly on your mental competence doesn't it now?... :)

Well, I certainly do, mind you, I'm maybe a special case, I have emphysema and am on home oxygen so my family doctor, who knows that I seldom complain will see me at almost a moment's notice.

My wife's much younger and healthier can usually get in to see her doctor in one or two days max.

Well, dentists are a different breed I think...I have a military dental insurance plan which pays for dental work...so, sure, instant service for pain I've always found. Again, I'm not an expert but I don't think that dental is covered by Medicare but I don't really know that for sure.

Tough one to answer...I have a friend here whose wife had a knee replaced 2 months ago (arthritis?). I believe she waited several months after agreeing to it...she's having the other one done next week... I suppose it matters a lot how popular the procedure is...

Well, I've certainly heard of it (but this could be just horror stories I suppose)

I don't really know, I guess so, I believe most middle income people likely pay more or less 20 - 30%

No, of course not...it's negotiated by a lot of experts, both medical and financial, then fixed at a certain figure per standard procedure (I suppose there's an allowance for complications etc), I suspect that these rates are renegotiated on some basis?...yearly etc?

Well, about two years ago I, too, shook hands with Mr C. It wasn't too serious I suppose, a mole on my back started to change it's size and look, I called my family doctor, she (cute little

30 year old gal) made an appt with 'Dr S' for three days hence, I went in, "shirt off", he said "Mr Beaman, this looks like it needs to come off". Long story short, he got a couple nurses in, they bathed my back with alcohol, he froze the area with about three needles and 'cutter offn there'...quick and clean job...almost nil pain...he contacted my Doctor a couple weeks later to inform her that it had been Squamous cell carcinoma, (skin cancer) He made another appt for a followup..."lookin good" he said...end of story...what more could a guy ask?

Well, look at it this way...if your medical bill is to be paid EITHER by a private insurance company OR a government entity then who's going to be more concerned with penny pinching?...seems to me that I'd sooner have my Government backing me than some bean-counter in a private insurance company, eh?

I have no clue...here in this small city the top specialists in cancer is Dr S and Dr D. They both confer and bring in (or send you out) if there's a question...so how much choice does anyone have?...beats me sir.

Not in my experience at all...

Well, most of us have 'Family Doctors', GP's usually who refer their patients to specialists as required...

Well, you likely need more expertise than I'm qualified to give to vote on that question...all I'll say is that I find no fault with our system at all, seems to be logically sound and on a good sensible basis...

Likely so.

Ok...a pleasure to debate with you sir...cheers...

Not a debate, I'm just trying to learn about your system. The politicians tell us what they want us to believe and the common folk who use the system tell us the truth. I like to hear all sides, then make a judgment on my own.

Thanks again for your comments Gord. It is well taken here. All the best to you and yours.

...and you too dbu...cheers...