Please advice: Planning to buy Camry tomorrow.

THis seems like a real good deal.

As far as fixing damaged car, in order to sell it as New it has to have a MFG's certificate of origin. No COO, no new car. So, if they are selling them as new, they have to have the COO. The only way around this and not getting it from a Toyota dealer? Stuff happens. Cars fall off trucks. They get damaged in shipping. Almost EVERY SINGLE car gets damages in shipping! (Except maybe Volvos and Mercedes. Ever see a shipment of either of these cars? You won't! They're shipped by Swift Transport in enclosed trailers!) So, ask to see the Certificate Of Origin. If they can't produce it, ask why.

So, if they are selling damged cars, this is probably how they are damaged. Now, to the extent of the damage. Here in Mass, if a car has a Salvage title, I have to TELL you it has a salvage title. If it has a Reconstructed title, I don't HAVE to tell you, but I will (My boss doesn't like it; it rarely keeps me from making the sale!). Depending on where YOU are more than where the dealer is determines what he needs to disclose. ASK THEM if the car has been damaged, and the extent of the damage; or take it to a body shop and have it looked at. There are tell-tale signs: paint doesn't quite match, bubbles or dust in paint, rough spots, etc. Take a small magnet wrapped in a tissue and go around the car. If there is bondo, it may still stidk, but with less force.

It could just be they are trying to make their quota, too. March is a big time for selling cars; I've sold half my lot already (um, we're pretty small...) and two or three more possibles. Big dealers have to sell cars at this time; it's counted on by the MFG's. They may be a little behind and need to boost sales. Toyota used to be funny; I don't know if they still are (RAY???). Let's say a dealer wanted Camrys, so he orders 15 Camrys. Toyota is overstocked with Corollas. They send the dealer 7 Camrys and 10 Corollas. They tell the dealer if he wants the balalnce of the Camrys, move the Corollas...NOW! So, the dealer will bend over backwards to sell Corollas, but won't budge an inch on the Camrys, and may even charge above sticker (A friend of mine at Toyota of Greenfield told me this back in '87. We wanted a new Camry and wound up almost stealing a Corolla!). Perhaps your dealer wants Avalons, and has to move Camrys to get them.

Let me know what happens with this.

Wow. Thanks for the inside info. I didn't know that dealers would do anything to sell off models that get overstocked. I found a post (don't remember the link, but you can search for '2005 Camry pricing' in Google newsgroups) where some guy bought a new Camry 2005 with manual transmission for a measly 14,730 + taxes and the sticker price is 19K!

So I am going to walk in and ask for 16K. I'll keep you posted if I end up buying it tomorrow. I'm rehearsing my dialogues now :)

-S

hachiroku wrote:

trailers!)

disclose.

pretty

backwards

Like Hachi said, if they don't have the right paperwork they can't sell used as new. If in doubt, take the car to a neutral local mechanic for an impartial inspection - if there is anything odd with the car a trained eye will pick it up where you probably wouldn't.

First, ask if that quote was the "Out The Door" price (using that exact term) - I.E. if you cut them a check for exactly $17,000 they'll hand you the keys. If that's the "Sale Price" and not the "Out The Door" price, they have lots of room to add bogus fees and get extra profit from you once they get you in the Back Room to sign the papers.

Paint Protection, Upholstery Protection, Body Side Molding, upgraded stereos, floor mats, undercoating, extended warranties... Just say NO, you want none of that. It's all mostly pure profit.

They can add junk fees to the paperwork numbers if they want (within reason) as long as they subtract them from the "Sale Price" so it adds up to the $17,000 "Out The Door" price.

Yes, they make a lot of money from the dealer financing, because they get a percentage back from the finance company. And yes, there's usually a pre-payment clause ("Rule Of Seven"?) that makes you pay a BIG chunk of interest for paying down the loan immediately - the second you sign the loan paperwork there's a minimum cost to get out of the loan early, even on the next business day. My dad got burned by that once - and badly, it was on a motorhome...

If you are going to finance elsewhere, don't sign paper one about a loan at the dealer and then talk to your bank, go see your bank or credit union /first/ and get pre-approved before you go back to the dealer. But don't walk in to the dealer and volunteer the info that you are financing elsewhere until AFTER you come to an agreement on an "Out The Door" price. They might be cutting the car price lower figuring they'll make it all back from you with the financing.

If pressed, /after/ you agree on the OTD Price tell them you'll finance there IF they can give you better deal. Unless it's a Manufacturer backed 0% financing deal, they probably can't.

And work out the trade-in value of your old car after you agree on the price of the new car, don't even talk trade yet - same reason, that's another place to play with the numbers, inflate the new car price to cover the inflated trade-in value. You are often better off selling your old car yourself privately than taking their realistic wholesale offer - but not always...

Car buyers get ripped off all the time because you only buy a new car once every 5 or 10 years, while that dealership might sell 3, 5,

If you sense them doing something shady, get up and walk out. You are the buyer and no matter how intimidated you may feel you still have the ultimate power, that of taking your business elsewhere.

There is more than one new Camry out there. They're like city buses, if you miss this one, there will be another one along in 15 minutes. And they can only rip you off if you LET them.

-->--

Don't spend a lot of time rehersing your dialog. Remember, the guy you are worried about convincing probably was cooking french fries at Arbie's before he got on with that fancy Toyota dealer. jor

Thanks for all this input guys. I won't sign up for financing and pay it off right away if I'll end up paying a BIG prepayment interest amount. These car dealers have a backdoor escape route for all our tricks. Lets see what happens today as I get ready to make my first 5 figure purchase in 5 years.

-S

Camry is a very reliable car

I'd definately recommend the 4 with stick or the v6, though. The automatic 4 is very Corolla-ish in terms of power - not really adequate for such a large car.

You would think that a 4 cylinder with automatic is not adequate for a Camry, but there are more of these cars on the road then any thing else.

I have an 05 Camry LE with the 4 CYL automatic and there's no doubt it's PERFECTLY adequate in terms of power. I've drove the car 95 to 100 mph for long peroids of time with NO problems what so ever. Pick up from stop lights is fine too

The four seems to work fine as long as you do not want to get up to speed very quickly or do not need clime steep grades.

mike hunt

snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net wrote:

That's neither here nor there. Lots of people buy Cavaliers and Echos too, but they are also underpowered. The 4 with automatic drives too much like an economy car for my liking.

IIRC from when I lived in the SF Bay area, there were quite a few steep grades there!

I was referring to pulling grades at highway speeds, at the limits of the available torque, not running on lower gears. One can easily pull a grade but who wants to run in a lower gear all the time to do so, and use more fuel?

mike hunt

Ray O wrote:

OK, but if one chooses the V6 they can win all their races with the Honda Accord. ;)

mike hunt

Ray O wrote:

To me, test driving a car with more power is like listening to a sound system with better speakers.

The car with more power will always be more fun to drive, and the better speakers will always sound better, even to a non-audiophile like me.

So, it is probably better to test-drive or listen to the least expensive option first and if not acceptable, then start moving up until you are satisfied or your budget limit is reached.

I'm beginning to think that my car is too quiet and smooth because there is very little sensation of speed. I've been stopped twice in the past 2 weeks for speeding and in both cases, I was just cruising along not even realizing that I was going over the limit. Talked my way out both times but now I keep an eye on the speedo. This never happened to me when I was driving a

That was because those vehicles would not capable of GOING over the speed limit on the interstates. ;)

mike hunt

Ray O wrote:

Mike,

You forget that the return trips on those roads is a long downhill where I could easily top 55! The wind and road noise would warn me that I was approaching 60 and that I should select a lower gear.