If you know both, which is the better service manual (98 Camry) for a beginner: Haynes or Chilton?
- posted
18 years ago
If you know both, which is the better service manual (98 Camry) for a beginner: Haynes or Chilton?
I use both.
If you can swing the bucks, the Toyota manual is the best...
Except that the Toyota manual is not for beginners... it assumes that the user has at least basic automotive knowledge.
Nonsense. Factory manuals are actually easier for beginners to understand since they go into much more detail, especially Toyota's, and don't substitute generic information for model-specific information (compare wiring diagrams -- Factory and Mitchell will usually be exactly right, Haynes and Chilton's only generally correct, which can make them useless to beginners for some repairs). Factory manuals are especially better for fuel, emissions, and computer systems and for information about removing and installing hard-to-reach parts, such as those inside the dashboard.
For people who don't know how to turn a wrench or change a tire, the best books by far are John Muir Publishing's "How to Keep Your" "Alive" series, even if the person owns a totally different car. However a manual written specifically for the person's car is still needed.
This is the absolute truth folks... even the bad factory shop manuals are head and shoulders above anything else out there.
Erik
: This is the absolute truth folks... even the bad factory shop manuals : are head and shoulders above anything else out there.
What is the price difference between two kinds for Toyota Camry?
: : Erik
When I worked the customer relations desk, we used to occasionally get complaints that the factory manuals were hard to understand for a layman after spending close to $200 for a full set, hence my warning. In my experience, someone who needs a manual to change oil or brakes probably should not be attempting fuel injection, emissions, or ECU diagnosis and repair.
Factory Service Manual will be around $170 for the base book plus more for wiring diagrams. Factory manuals are very detailed and with one, you can disassemble and re-assemble the entire car.
Chiltons and Haynes manuals will be around $30 and cover the repairs most homeowners would attempt themselves.
Written for beginners or not, the factory service manual is vastly superior to either the Haynes or the Chilton. The factory manual has a picture of a part, any part, and it will actually be the right picture AND it will exist on the particular car. Haynes and Chilton, on the other hand, will have a picture that won't look like anything even remotely similar to what you are working on. I wouldn't encourage anybody to ever buy a Chilton or a Haynes manual - they aren't even suitable to wipe your ass. The factory manual is by far the better tool. It is more costly, but it is a much better manual.
I assume the reader has basic automotive knowledge, or he wouldn't be buying a service manual in the first place. If this is true, then certainly Chilton and Haynes also assume a certain degree of basic knowledge.
In my experience, anybody that needs a manual to change oil should give seriouis consideration to the Quick Change Joint down the street.
Ya know, yer right! I just assume someone posting a message about manuals probably has a basic knowledge, but I've been wrong before...
Once.
What about Bentley's?
CarQuest sells them for $19.95
Found out where Jim Petrin went. He's at a dealer about 14 miles away. Perhaps if I can I'll swing down and tell him you said "Hi"
If I get a free minute sometime!
...and they're equally worthless whether the price be $20 or $30.
Definitely tell him Hi for me! I'm sure he knows, but Jerry, his former sales manager passed away. Jerry was a super guy, the only sales manager that I swapped Christmas cars with all these years.
I looked at the library's Chilton and Haynes manuals for my 1997 Nissan and found them to be really deficient, with pictures that were too fuzzy or dark to let me identify the parts and information that either wasn't there or applied to a different vehicle. For example, the instructions for changing the transmission fluid said nothing about opening the drain screw, and the the instructions for the disk brakes referred to the "torque member" but didn't explain what it was, and some nut and bolt torque specs were outright wrong (130 ft-lbs on tiny bolts? I don't think so). The electrical diagram was really different, especially for the parts under the hood, and some of the body information was for a Datsun car from the 1970s instead of a truck from the 1990s. The instructions for installing the throttle position sensor & switch contradicted one another and also the Nissan factory manual. And the troubleshooting charts, under the part about rough idle, was written for a carbureted vehicle and didn't mention the idle air control valve, a common cause of idle problems with fuel injected engines.
I ended up spending $140 on a Nissan factory manual and found it to be worth it. Some people sell bootleg copies of these on CD-ROM for $15 on eBay, not that you should do anything illegal. ;)
Alldata is also available online now too... looks like $25, but don't know the details, will look later. They're pretty up to date, complete with service bulletins and all that.
Mitchell manuals are also excellent, but pricey...
I find them adequate for filling holes in my knowledge for things *I* would tackle.
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