Service manual for 98 Camry: Haynes or Chilton?

You're making the faulty assumption that the "knowledge" contained in these pieces of garbage is accurate, which it often is not.

However, the manual may have such specifications like the torque values for the oil drain bolt, wheel nuts / bolts, or other things that one may come across during normal maintenance. Better to use the correct torques than just guessing.

They (and Helm) are fine for the brands and models of cars that they make manuals for. Neither does the 1998 Toyota Camry service manual, the original subject of this thread.

Haynes/Chilton books are so often wrong on these values that just guessing is more reliable.

You raise a good point, this sort of data should arguably be included in the Owner's Manual. Nobody should have to buy a service manual of any sort to properly torque stull like lug nuts and oil drain bolts. Obvioulsy, there isn't room inthe Owner's Manual for every torque spect that is out there, but the automakers should reasonably expect that owners will be changing tires and oil. The owners probably won't be draining the trans or the diffs, at least no on purpose, but they would easily think they could handle draining the crankcase and refilling it. All the Owner's Manual would have to say on the subject is show where the drain plug is, and list the torque spec. The manual tells stuff about the spark plugs, it could tell about the drain plug.

Having said that, I can't encourage anybody to buy a Haynes or a Chilton. If one needs to know the stuff between those covers, and can reasonably use the information contained therein, they would be much better off with the vastly superior factory service manual, even with a cost differential of quadruple the cost. A single mistake averted can cover the cost of the manual.

I have a Bentley for my BMW, and it's remarkably good. If there is a Bentley for a Toyota, it should be as good as they are for the BMW.

Hachiroku, I think you are one of the reasonable regulars here and would like to show something to you.

What you have done here is called "hijacking a thread" and unfortunately is far too common in this group. We had a perfectly good automotive discussion going on and all of a different OT subject is interjected into the mix.

This is a mild example of why filtering on OT in the subject line is useless within this mostly OT group.

...because all the space is taken up with idiotic warnings about how you're not supposed to run the car in an enclosed garage, how you're supposed to wait for the mist to clear from the windows before driving off, how you're supposed to turn on your headlights if it's dark outside and you want to drive, etc.

Precisely.

Next time you see a lawyer, thank him/her for all this crap.

Erik

Autozone stores around here used to be really generous toward people "borrowing" their Haynes manuals (almost every copy was greasy) because it helped them sell parts, but now they actually want to _sell_ the manuals. At least

Oh. My. God. Somebody thinks I'm reasonable! I'm going to print this one out and hang it on my wall!!!

Aw, shucks; yeah, I know (kicks at ground with one foot...)

Message received and acknowledged...

It comes with learning how to READ the damn things!

I have been a 'technocrat' all my life and have read manual after manual. Once you learn how to read one, they're all the same.

But, I have been left scratching my head on more than one occasion.

What I do. I RTFM BEFORE touching a tool, to make sure i uunderstand the procedure. Then, I do what I used to do when taking tests in college: the answer to one question is often contained in another question. So, I peruse the manual further to see if there is a better explaination. If there is, Gravy. If not, the phone number is inside the front cover...

Or next time you see an idiot, slap him upside the head. They need to release a regular 15 page car manual with a special 800 page idiot supplement. I swear, it takes 20 pages in the manual to tell you how to start your car and put the seatbelt on.

How about 5 pages on how to use the automatic transmission? Interestingly, the same owner's manual had less than a page on how to use the manual transmission.

Well, that's probably because a) anyone who actually *buys* a manual transmission probably doesn't need any special instructions or b) if they included a section on heel-and-toe downshifting, there'd be all sorts of liability issues (pick whichever explanation you like better)

nate