Sienna 06 roof penetrations - wire airbag locations?

I'm against it but what problems may I encounter doing a Sienna 06 roof penetration (near the center) for a two way radio antenna.
(Magnetic mount has lots of problems.) By the way - put three or four eyelets on each side for potential privacy curtains to be snapped into.
My response was that nothing is known about either electrical control circuits or airbag locations etc. Our old wheels was made of steel and sheet metal and not plastic. I don't trust glue on plastic.
Are there safe areas and locations for any of the above? Any experiences?
Regards, joe
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You can access Toyota factory service manuals at techinfo.toyota.com for $10 per day and check out the locations of side curtain airbags and wiring harnesses. Keep in mind that if you drill a hole in the sheet metal, rust will probably develop near the edge of the hole, and unless you drop the headliner, there is a good chance you will drill right through the headliner. I do not recommend drilling holes in sheetmetal unless you apply a very high quality rustproofing or re-paint the sheet metal where the paint was broken. Also, you will not have any warranty coverage for any rust that develops near the hole.
I would look at through-the-glass antennas or antennas that clamp on to the lip of the rear hatch or hood. They are easier to install and easier to avoid the problems associated with airbags and wiring harnesses.
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On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 16:49:52 -0500, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:>

I'm in the SW and rust is never a problem for cars here. Resale value neither. I was about to ask if the side plastic - like next to the rear doors pull right off - then I see they are side airbags. There are F***ing airbags everywhere you look. This seems like an application for Velcro patches <grin>. I can avoid blame when they fail. I think I will use a wood stick jammed in the roof rack to hold the antenna and then the main problem is one of a very substantial or solid ground - to bare metal and at two points minimum. Metal in the roof rack may not be adequately grounded - through whatever holds it on. Better not be glue - like the wings on a passenger airplane.
j
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Consumers and safety advocates want those airbags, and if the vehicle occupants are properly restrained by seat belts, the airbags do reduce the severity of injuries. I can't imagine how you can avoid blame when they fail, since you only have yourself to blame if they do fail.
Other things to be aware of besides wire harnesses and air bags if you're drilling holes in the roof are dome lights, sunroof rails and hardware, air conditioning tubing, and entertainment systems.
Rather than just jamming a wood stick in the roof rack, why don't you just attach the antenna directly to the fore-aft roof rack rail? I would imagine that there are brackets made for this application, or you can fabricate one from a metal plate and some U-clamps, and then attach the antenna base to the metal plate. The roof rack is screwed to nut-serts in the sheet metal. If you want to confirm that the roof rack is grounded, check continuity from the roof rack to a hinge bolt or door striker. If the coating on the roof rack prevents getting a good ground plane, run a ground wire along the coax to a good ground point somewhere in the body.
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Ray O
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On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 21:10:25 -0500, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:>

So there is actually a coil for the rear AC??? I had guessed a series of mini ducts from a single front coil. Does this mean that for max AC power I should run both front & rear AC? 2nd AC question - when the AC is set to max it automatically switches to "air from outside" rather than" recirculate". Why would re circulating not provide the most cooling - after all the air is (hopefully) cooler? j
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<snipped>
I have not looked at the Sienna's AC system so I do not know whether there is a separate condenser for the rear AC or not. The Previa with dual AC has a separate condesner for the rear. If the Sienna has independent controls for the rear AC, then my guess is that there is another condenser for the rear. In either case, for max cooling, you should run bothe the front and rear AC.

I am not really familiar with how the AC in the Sienna operates. A logical setup would be for the system to switch to outside air if the outside air temp is cooler than the air temp inside the cabin (for example, 105 degrees outside but 120 degrees in the cabin) until the outside and inside air temps are the same, then switch to recirculate until the cabin air temp is within X degrees of the set temperature, then switch back to outside air and lower the fan speed. Running the system on outside (fresh) air after the initial cooldown is accomplished will help reduce the musty odor from cooties growing on the condenser.
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On Sat, 1 Jul 2006 23:21:38 -0500, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:>

I really would like to know how the AC for the rear is achieved. Did a Google and found nothing. Went through the owner's manual and specs - same result. Is there not something other than "the $10 a day pages" (that I frankly have my doubts about)?
I don't even know how to 'get to' the air filter. Even that was something one was supposed to dust off frequently - now the priority has changed to rotating tires. It must be hell getting to the air filter since it is simply replaced at 30k.
The latest manual available is 2003 - how much if any may it differ from the 2006 model?
j
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<snipped>

The techinfo.toyota.com web site is a Toyota web site with info supplied by Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A, not a third party. There are those will argue otherwise, but the folks at Toyota are more knowledgeable about Toyotas than anyone else.
If there is a rear condesner, there will be a drain tube for the condenser. Look under the van for an additinal condenser drain tube, or visit your local Toyota dealer and ask them. You can also ask the dealership parts department to show you the schematic of the rear AC to see if there is a rear condenser.

The engine air filter is under the hood and should be obvious. If it is not, just follow the intake tube back from the throttle body to the air filter.
The front cabin air filter is behind the glove box. I have no idea where the rear cabin air filter is.

According to the web site, all service manuals and electrical wiring diagrams are available for the 2006 model year. As far as differing from the 2006 model, features that are available in 2006 will not be covered in the 2003 manual.
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 13:00:56 -0500, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:>

I was thinking - but did not say "after market or by others" - I would never spend more than $100 for a complete manual and I'm not sure why T has adopted their posture of $10 per day for a web site. Were changes that drastic between 03 and 06 that they would significantly alter an el-cheapo manual or 200 page guide?
j
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<snipped>

A good repair manual is indispensable for diagnosing and repairing modern vehicles, and IMO, and in my experience, the factory service manuals are the best. If you are a do-it-yourselfer without a lot of automotive experience, the $300 you spend on a complete set of factory service manuals will pay for itself many times over. That said, I have not invested in a factory service manual for our '03 Sequoia or '00 Lexus because they have not broken down and I have not needed one to do simple work like brake work. To me, there is no question that I would invest $10 for access to a factory service manual that will save me hundreds in repairs.
Toyota charges money for access to their web site because Toyota is in the business of making money. They invested a lot of money to document and collate information on their vehicles, and so they will earn a return on that investment. Also, that information is available to competitors, and they are not going to give that information to competitors for free.
IMO, the factory service manual is not "el-cheapo" and contains information needed to properly service a very expensive vehicle.
The changes between the 2003 and 2006 Sienna are significant. For example, the 2003 has a different chassis, body, engine, and transmission from the 2006, and the '06 has available features that were not available on the '03, like laser cruise control and HID headlamps
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:09:12 -0500, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:>

So is Netscape and many others - whose products are available at no charge.
From time to time one has to wonder about certain business models - including that of Toyota.
BTW. It is a three volume set + a fourth wiring diagrams - total price $508.51 +Tax etc.
j
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AFAIK, most commercial web sites make support themselves or make money from either advertising or subscription fees. There is no outside advertising on techinfo.toyota.com.
Although Toyota's factory service manuals are available to consumers, they are not intended for consumer use. They are intended for use by professional with access to professional diagnostic tools and equipment, and someone with limited automotive knowledge will not have an easy time following them. The information in the factory service manuals is very complete, including voltages for every pin for every ECU and for every sensor, transmission test port pressures, ring-to-piston groove clearances, plastigauge specs for crankshaft bearing clearances, steering rack preload, differential collar crush depth, etc. This is the type of information that the average consumer would not understand, much less attempt a repair on. There are several aftermarket automotive repair manuals available for consumer use that include information that the consumer is more likely to be interested in, like how to do a brake job. These books often explain the principles behind the designs, while professional manuals do not explain principles of basic systems like brakes or ignition systems because they assume that the professional technician already knows that basic stuff.
This is akin to someone without a medical background trying to diagnose and treat an ailment from a medical textbook instead of using consumer health guides.
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On Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:45:31 -0500, "Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote:>

With all due respect to both you great eloquence and demonstrated knowledge and skill here - IMHO you have just outlined the problem!
As I look at the people in a shop I see none that would appear to be even inclined to pick up a copy of the newspaper. None would ever take the time to read manuals or even admit to reading manuals. Each person would have at least 10 excuses from not enough time to manuals being no good. Been there done that with the GM crowd in a large dealership. As I visited (in person) and talked (phone and email) to many car dealers I was impressed by just how uniformly similar they all were in everything they did and said and the manner in which they conducted business. I can think of no other business that would fit such a uniform pattern.
This type of information is a perfect application for 'expert programs' where all the vitals are entered by an attendant and all the answers or further questions come out the other end instantly.
GM has no such system. Does Toyota? This is also about the only way that "baby-talk" can be smoked out of written materials.
j
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The complexity of modern vehicles makes it difficult, if not impossible, to diagnose an unusual condition without referring to either the printed or computrized repair manual for specifications.
I have visited around 100 Toyota dealerships and closely analyzed the service operations of around 60. The analysis includes spending a week watching how customers are handled; watching how service work is dispatched, performed, and QC'd; analyzing customer pay repair and maintenance repair orders and warranty repair orders; inventorying special service tools, repair manuals; and technical service bulletins; inventorying required shop equipment; and analyzing production capacity vs. units in operation; reviewing technician certifications; and analyzing service satisfaction indices. Many of the dealerships I visisted in small towns carried more than one franchise, and the other franchises benefitted from my recommendations. I do not know if this is still the case, but when I was doing these dealership analysis, no other automakers offered a similar service to their dealerships.
I've also dealt with customers who had repairs or maintenance performed at independent service facilities.
From that experience, for my personal vehicles, I would not have maintenance or repairs performed at any of the muffler chains; I would get only tires at a tire facility; and I would get tires or batteries at Sears. Independent facilities (including so-call import or specific brand specialists) are a hit-or-miss proposition - I would only use ones that emply ASE Master Certified Technicians and are AAA approved.
My impression with shops that claim to be Toyota specialists are that the owners are ex-Toyota technicians who had current knowledge at one time but lose that currency the longer they are independent because they cannot attend Toyota technical classes. I fall into that category because I have not attended a Toyota technical class in over 12 years. There are some excellent independent shops, and they are probably OK for routine maintenance and basic repairs but advanced diagnostics on a modern vehicle may be beyond the scope of their abilities or special service tool inventories.
Like a restaurant that gives preferential treatment to a regualar patron, when it comes to going "the extra mile" if it is questionable whether a repair is warrantable, or if a vehicle needs an out-of-warranty repair, dealership and factory service personnel are much more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to a customer who has his vehicle regularly serviced at a Toyota dealership. For example, if you need a radiator replacement one week after the warranty has expired and you have never been back to the dealership except for warranty repairs, you are much less likely to receive goodwill assistance than someone who has had all of his maintenance performed at the dealership. I have never seen an independent shop provide a free repair to a customer whose warranty has just expired.

If you think that dealership service personnel NEED "expert programs" in order to make sense of written manuals, then what makes you think that an independent shop without access to factory training is going to be any better?
GM, Ford, Toyota, and I assume the other major automakers do have access to computerized diagnostic systems, but they all require trained technicians to take advantage of them.
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You pay for the latest technology....
My 1992 Corolla Wagon FSM was under a hundred bucks....
--

Scott in Florida

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