'04 4-Runner road noise frustration

Hey all, This is my first post to this site. I hope I can get some valuable insight on my problem, and/or where to escalate next.

I bought my '04 4-Runner Sport new from a local dealer. After about 10k miles I started to hear a low frequency oscillation and vibration in the steering wheel at very specific highway speeds (72), much like what a bad wheel bearing might sound like. I immediately suspected tires, so I balanced and rotated the OEM Dunlap equipment. No change, so I took it back to my dealer for a checkout.

Here's where the fun starts. After a full day, they told me it was exhaust frequency noise and there was nothing they could do. Very unsatisfied with this answer (I mean, new truck, lots of noise, "nothing we can do" - live with it, aarrgghh!!!), I escalated it to the service director. Two weeks later I brought the car back so a factory regional "expert" could diagnose my problem. Much to my surprise, I was told, my truck had a "harmonic" at that speed and it was perfectly normal operation for that model and year, but it MIGHT go away in time. I asked for it in writing, so my warrantee would cover after expiration and was told "sorry, we can't put anything in writing". So I went on to test up an meeting with the GM of the dealership to further escalate. He understood my frustrations, and offered me a "deal" to replace my '04 (with 10k miles) plus $9500 to get into an '05, but could not tell me anything that was done to the '05 to make this go away - how nice of him. He was basically charging me roughly a $1 a mile to get rid of a problem with my truck. I don't want special deals, I just want my NEW truck fixed!!

With blood pressure now starting to go off the chart, I test drove three brand new trucks and one used truck (same model, same year, same equipment) and as suspected, NO noise or vibration on the EXACT stretch of highway and speed. When asked why my "normal" mode of operation was getting worse (louder noise and more vibration at a wider ODO range (now 68-75) I was completely blown off and told basically to go away.

Now really miffed, I escalated my case to arbitration through the Toyota web site. They told me to go back to the dealer because they were "the experts with the right tools and training to diagnose my problem". Keep in mind here, after three trips to the dealership, no one had so much as lifted a screwdriver, pulled a wheel to look at a bearing, rotated a tire or done ANYTHING to help diagnose or validate my complaint. During arbitration, I was met by and independent evaluator and a Toyota representative, (who BTW never saw my truck, never test drove my truck to validate my complain, and never answered any of my questions). After an hour of me stating articulately what had happened over the last three months, I was told my complaint was not a safety hazard, did not reduce the reliability of the vehicle, and did not decrease the value of the vehicle. When asked why I could not reproduce this problem with four tested exact trucks, I was further blown off with "I don't care if you never recreate this issue with ANY of our trucks" and repeated NO safety, NO reliability and NO decrease in value... CASE CLOSED, and the "so called independent arbitration evaluator" agreed.

So, now stuck with a lemon, that the dealer and factory representative claims perfectly normal, but can't explain why we can't make it happen with another vehicle, Arbitration closed, and noise getting so loud now my stereo won't go up high enough to drown out the constant highway noise. Hmmmm, think I'll buy another?? Any suggestions from any of you out there as to where I might go next??

Thanks to anyone who may provide some input.

-frustrated owner - 4Runner4SALE!

Reply to
Steven Gerson
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Your last line is my advice, trade it in with another dealer who will give you a decent price. Id imagine that $5k wouldve been a better senario. Would you trade up for $5k?

Or if your really lucky you can do what we did (More through good luck than managment I think) we traded a BMW in on a new Ford, while we had the Ford they onsold our BMW, the Ford then had a small isseu with the transmission and as it was only around 2 months old we fought to get a trade for a new one. They said that there wasnt any available with the spec that we had so we demanded our money back. THey said "But we cant give you back yoru trade" (of which they paid top dollar for I might add :-) )

We just stuck to our guns and they reimbursed the entire sticker price and we went and bought a similar car the same day.

Reply to
Scotty

Why not take it to an independent shop and have them take a look at it? Like you say, it could be a bad wheel bearing and an independent may put it on a rack and listen to it. If they find something wrong maybe they would call your dealer (as if they ever listen to an independent shop). Another would be to pay for the independent shop to fix it and take the bill to the Toyota dealer and ask for a reimbursement. If they say no, then file in small claims court to be reimbursed. Maybe then you'll get some action, if they want to avoid going to court.

Good luck.

B~

Reply to
B. Peg

Its not the court costs its the article in the local paper that you pay to put in scorning the crap out of them! Bad publisity aint liked in car dealerships. Evenif it puts only one person off a new car there the ripple effect is massive.

Reply to
Scotty

Yep, tried that for sure. And will be trying harder in the weeks ahead!!

Reply to
Steven Gerson

Thanks B,

I really never thought about trying the independent route. Might be worth the $$ to keep from loosing sleep ;)

Reply to
Steven Gerson

Yep, told the GM I was going to put in a call for action at my local news channel. He basically said "go ahead"...

Reply to
Steven Gerson

Actually, I had a noise from the front on my old car. Thought it was a CVC joint as it did it while turning. A front end shop said it was a motor mount. "Say, huh?" Turned out it was and the diagnosis was free, so they got my business. Seemed the engine was torquing a bit on the mount on turning and making the clunk while turning. Only cost $75 and they did it while I waited. It may have taken a day or to in the dealership shop.

Another was when it was towed. Turned out the battery was good, but no starter. The tow truck driver recommended some independent shop over the nearby dealer (AAA paid the tow). All went well there too and was only $160 parts and labor. Hate to think what the dealer would have charged.

Sometimes the independents do better.

Good luck.

B~

Reply to
B. Peg

Back yourself up and do it. Once a media person gets into that (If they think that they can make a story about it) they get thier teeth into it and can ruin a dealer or at least make em sit up and think.

Reply to
Scotty

Other than an annoy "normal" exhaust header ticking my 03 V6 SE doesn't have it. I suspect it is the tires - they aren't very good to begin with. Did dealer balance and rotate the tires? Most Toyota allow wheels are hyub centric and take a special ficture to spin balance properly. Was the spare incorporated and front two moved to the back? Might be worth a try to contact a Dunlop tire dearer and have them check out the tires --- for them it is a safety issue. You could have a tread separation problem. I'm surprized the dealer without you asking rotate tires and do a alignment for you with only 9500 miles. Can ya swap tires with someone and see if it goes away?

Reply to
Wolfgang

Well, after not getting any mind share AT ALL from the dealer, I too still suspected the tires, even after rotating and balancing them at my cost rto help diagnose. I broke down and bought new ones (Cooper - and BTW they're awsome tires). Funny thing, the noise was gone, or at least I thought it was gone but it was simply masked by the new treds. Remember, it took almost

10k miles for me to here the original noise and vibration and I had rotated my OEM dunlops at 5k. So now, after about 5k miles on the Coopers, I'm hearing and feeling it again and it will get worse with additional wear.

Dealer knows EXACTLY what is causing it (without turning a wrench, hmmm). They told me it was coming from the front differential much like what happened on the '01 Tundras and was perfectly "normal" for all time 4Wdrive models (but may go away...). HA! What really chaffs my ass, is they could pretty easily replace the front end and simply won't. They claim it will just plain come back. Yeah right, (but only on my vehicle...)

Thanks for the write. More as it unfolds.

Reply to
Steven Gerson

Reply to
Steven Gerson

The noise has a reason. That reason can be found. If it is the front differential, check the gear oil level. Try a different brand of gear oil. Try to isolate the noise by running it up on a lift or jackstands and hold a mechanic's stethoscope to each bearing location. If it really is the front diff, how can you destroy that while under warranty so it looks like a material failure?

Do have another shop put it up on a lift and run it, trying to find the source of the noise. The sound can telegraph through something else and be hard to pinpoint inside the cab. Does the truck have a center driveshaft bearing? Is that properly aligned? Does the driveshaft have an external spline joint? Is that properly greased? Are all the u-joints properly greased? Don't assume anything, especially don't assume that the previous maintenance was done correctly. Look at everything. It will be much easier to do the detective work yourself or with an independent shop where you can find somebody interested than to have all the grief of that stonewalling dealership.

Ken

Reply to
Ken Shelton

Steve, I had a vib in the steering wheel of my 03 4Runner 4x4. After having the wheels balanced and rotated several times it still can be felt at low speeds. I drove a new 05 and found the same vib, not as bad, but was still there. Late in 03 this post had other who complained with no support from Toyota. Since I have never owned a 4x4 before I have assumed it is normal.

Good luck on your quest with Toyota, short of the transfer case falling off my guess is you will get nowhere.

Rob

Reply to
eddie

Thanks Ken.

I've checked most of the items below. I'll be taking to an independent soon!!

Grief is right...

Steve

Reply to
Steven Gerson

Rob,

I totally agree. I don't expect to get anywhere with the dealer. Some have suggested other "methods" to cause hard failure while it's still under warrantee. We'll see just how far I can go...

Steve

Reply to
Steven Gerson

Complain to the BBB.

Car Dealers are like lawyers and politians.... nuff said.

Where are you located?

Reply to
spunkyman

Reply to
Steven Gerson

Had similar problem after replacing all tires on my Tacoma, back and forth between tire dealer and car dealer. Rotating tires, rebalancing, replacing front pair, alignment... Toyota dealer finally showed me visible "hop" or high point in one of the tires. ..back to tire dealer.. Replacing that tire corrected issue.

For what it's worth these were 31.5" tires off-road package and dealer indicated the big tires are a shape and balancing nightmare regardless and to check/correct them more frequently then your average car tire.

In hindsight moving that tire to the rear seemed to improve things a bit over it being in the front, and having a heavy load in the bed had also reduced the vibration (springs didn't boing as much from the tire hop I guess, though I dont recommend loading all that mulch I had in the back of your 4Runner ;-))

Dave

Steven Gers> Colorado Springs - home of the Toyota rip off central....

Reply to
David Mulvihill

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