Oil Relocation Kits - Harmful to your engine?

And since that's based on REAL world data, it's something worth knowing and taking into account for those who will be operating under those conditions.

Which is certainly your right. It's your money.

And as with the race track example, that's real world data taht's worth knowing. The stuff I was objecting to as being of any great help was the eyeball assessments where people declare such and such filter to be junk because they don't like the way it looks inside without any regard or knowledge of how well it filters.

Since you don't know whether what you call "good enough" is actually any worse then the stuff you pay more for and think is better, I only see an unsupported opinion being passed off as much more then it is. IN the process you impugn anyone who chooses to base their opinion on actual facts rather then subjection opinion. Seems backwards to me.

I consider myself in the latter category, which is

Well, you *think* it's giving you something extra. The fact is, you have no way of knowing if that's true or not. And in fact, some of those oils really aren't supposed to be used in newer cars because they are more likely, due to additives, to foul the cat converter sooner then if you used the proper type of oil. A person with a new car, following your advice, might wind up replacing their cats at

-- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789

You're not wearing safety glasses?

--- Rich

How would we know?

I put 225k on my '94 Toyota p/u, having the oil changed at Jiffy Lube every 10-15k.

Toward the end it was down on power... probably indicative of a stretched timing chain... and it burned about a quart every 5,000.

We both know that the bypass on those filters was probably open most of the time after 8,000, which would equate to a 100% filter failure, yet the truck kept on running.

--- Rich

Ya, but the problem is, instead of actually spending the remaining $2 on filter media, they put in half the amount of media as the competitor.

--- Rich

I guess I just haven't seen any hard facts supporting the assertion that Fram is a decent product other than one CR study done over a decade ago. And I don't have a particularly high opinion of CR soooo....

I'm aware of the potential ZDDP issue with the cats, but the only car I have with a cat is my 944 and that drinks Mobil 1, not an issue. I use Rotella in the Studes because they have a nasty habit of leaking everywhere and Mobil 1 could get a little expensive.

nate

Why don't you like CR? I hedge w/ them myself, cuz I think they're better stat compilers than actual reviewers, but still, they are supposed to be the bastion of neutrality. But, in reading the fine print on their reliability assessments in the April car buying guide, I wonder just how big a spread there is between "poor" and "good". I sort of hope the spread is substantial, to justify the higher prices I'm willing to pay for reliability. But who really knows? That statistical gobbledygood I read in there left me wondering if *they* know what their statistics mean.

---------------------------- Mr. P.V.'d formerly Droll Troll "Nate Nagel" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...

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If nothing else, their philosophy of what makes a good car is almost diametrically opposed to mine. They seem to focus solely on initial quality and not take into account how a vehicle performs over the long term. They're not the only ones guilty of this, however, most car mag "long term" tests barely cover the vehicle's warranty period, I'm more concerned about what my running costs will be when it's 10 or 15 years old. Granted, that's awfully hard to determine and a lot of it has to be done subjectively by evaluating the quality of the components, but there ya have it.

Doing stupid s*it like criticizing a small, light off-road vehicle for being tippy (and there's debate about that, even) in emergency lane changes just to attract (the wrong kind of) readers doesn't help matters any either, in my eyes...

That all said, I don't doubt the veracity of the oil filter test (it would be pretty hard to allow a bias to creep in in something like that, and durability for longer than a few thousand miles really isn't an issue,) but the fact remains that that's ancient history and probably all filter mfgrs. have redesigned their product several times since then.

nate

I doubt it, I think CR's web site only goes back 4 years even if you have a subscription (I don't)

nate

Why do you think it was open after 8000? Did you ever cut open a filter to see what's in it? I bought a 89 S-10 with 150K on it that had been given it's regular oil and filter changes all it's life at

-- Elbridge Gerry, of Massachusetts:

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789

they do! Bypass filters don't need the anti drain valve

Fram uses cheap materials (less cost) and are substandard. The anti drain valve is the rubber behind the holes nearest the gasket.

No anti drain valve=delayed oil pressure No bypass valve=oil starvation if filter clogs or cold thick oil cannot pass element. Over pressure valve (in oil pump) maintains max oil pressure with cool oil and increased RPM when oil pump puts out higher volume than needed for engine. kend