1990 Vanagon Brake issue

Had my brakes done recently. All four wheels with a complete overhaul for about $450 worth of work.

Problem is, after I drive for a while... say 40 to 50 miles, the car won't come to a stop. Short distances around town seem ok.

Bringing the car back for them to look at it in a couple of days. My theory is the pads are somehow too tight (?) and are touching the rotors. By driving a distance they heat up and now won't stop the car.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, George

Reply to
G.I.O.
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Easy to check. Drive 40 miles, get out and feel the wheel rims (front and back). My money would be on the rear shoes.

Also possible that there is no slack in the master cylinder pushrod and pressure is building in the hyd system. That would affect pairs of wheels or all four.

Speedy Jim

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Reply to
Speedy Jim

I did as you suggest. I drove the van for about 15 miles and checked the rims. The rear were cool to the touch but both front rims were very hot. Could not keep my hands on them.

I assume this means the front brakes are at least partially engaged... but what would cause this on BOTH sides after a complete overhaul?

Reply to
G.I.O.

Both sides suggests pressure buildup in the frt ckt. The M/C has to allow the fluid from the calipers to return to the reservoir after you take your foot off. A port inside the M/C gets uncovered at a certain point in the stroke.

Something misadjusted (at the M/C) most likely. I don't think there is a "wrong" M/C they could have installed.

Clogged brake hoses (old ones) can cause this, but most likely they were changed or at least you would have had the problem before.

Anyway, you've done the investigation; now it's their turn. Don't let them tell you that the heat is normal and they will "wear in"!

Speedy Jim

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Reply to
Speedy Jim

Jim:

Thanks for your reply. Very much appreciated. Can I ask you...

Would this condition do any damage to the front rotors if it has been this way for, say, 1500 miles since the overhaul??

George

Reply to
G.I.O.

follow up question....

Could the M/C be "bad" if I have the rear breaks working or are there two M/C's?

I'm just wondering if they will try to sell me a new M/C to cover their cost to fix this.

Thanks, George

Reply to
G.I.O.

Jim:

(having some email issues as well so if this is a duplicate of my earlier reply, please excuse...)

Thanks for the help on this. Can I ask you...

Are there two MC's or just one. That is, can there be a bad MC for the front that is not affecting the rear?

Would it be likely the MC is no good or just not adjusted correctly. They did not replace the MC but claim (on the repair form) that they "inspect all hydraulic components, inspect all brake hardware, flush all parts with brake cleaner, make all necessary adjustments, vehicle road test by ASE certified technician"

Also, if I've gone some 1500 miles since the job was done will there be any damage to the front rotors now?

Thanks, George

Reply to
G.I.O.

There is one M/C but it has 2 sections- one for frt and one for rear. Doesn't sound like it's bad, maybe not adjusted properly.

Sounds like they re-used the old calipers. If the caliper pistons are sticking (won't retract all the way) the new pads will be too tight and press on the disc. But they should have noticed that when they put the pads in.

This is the kind of situation where you could be in for a fight over who is responsible. Hope they prove to be helpful.

Jim

Reply to
Speedy Jim

Thanks, Jim.

I at least have some knowledge going in. However, I plan on playing dumb and let them do the investigation. If I know there is an issue with the front now for sure I will see how honest they are in their inspection.

BTW: How is there an issue of "who is responsible". I paid them for a "complete brake job" and I did not get one, apparently.

Where else would the responsibility lie if not with the people who did the service work?

George

Reply to
G.I.O.

will see how

"complete brake job"

For example, if it's stuck caliper pistons, they'll say. "Oh, we didn't replace them so it's your nickle." etc. Jim

Reply to
Speedy Jim

It's possible that it could cause warpage of the discs. If it had though, you might have noticed it by now (wheel wobble/pulsating brake pedal). Jim

Reply to
Speedy Jim

There is one M/C with 2 hydraulic circuits. I can't imagine why it would go "bad" right after they did repair work.

Jim

Reply to
Speedy Jim

I guess I mean could the constant rubbing against the rotor (which had just been refinished) score it to the point where it is now unusable?

Reply to
G.I.O.

Jim:

I see what you mean but you also said they should have seen the pads were runnning against the rotors when they installed them in the first place. (assuming this is my problem)

Seems they would have some responsibility for their carelessness.

BTW: Why do I not see anything on the bill regarding bleeding of the brake system. Is this not standard when you have a brake job done to make sure there is no air in the system after the work?

George

Reply to
G.I.O.

runnning against the

system. Is this not

system after the

Don't know why there is no entry for that. But if they didn't replace calipers or wheel cyls, the system might not have needed bleeding.

Jim

Reply to
Speedy Jim

I'm thinking two possibilities, as Jim said: 1 is they did not adjust the brake pedal freeplay enough so the master cylinder is not releasing and (2) the pistons in the calipers are not retracting all the way. The pads always rub on the rotors. Lightly. That does not generate the amount of heat you are reporting. The rotors may be damaged by the heat. What Jim was trying to answer this question with is, when you are applying your brakes (when they're still working / cool) do you feel kind of an up-and-down sensation through the brake pedal? Generally that is what happens with warped rotors - but not always. Chances are they will need to remove the rotors and at very least turn them again on the lathe to clean them up as they are now likely glazed. Possibly needing new pads and even new calipers if the heat build-up was excessive. Ask if they replaced the flexible lines. If they did not and they work an agreement with you wherein they accept responsibility for MOST of the additional repair costs, consider having them replace the flexible lines all the way around and you would be responsible for that additional cost. It is not normally done, but on older vehicles, if it hasn't been done, it should be. They deteriorate from the inside and can develop "flaps" that act like one-way check valves. Keep us informed, please. -BaH

Reply to
Busahaulic

The repair shop just called. They said they had to redo the finish on the front rotors. Said something about a "reverse finish". That "all is fine, now".

Is it? What should I ask them when I pick up the van in a few hours??

George

Reply to
G.I.O.

Drive it and see if "all is fine" and take it from there. They probably had to do some work but aren't about to let you know what.

Reply to
Busahaulic

Just to close out this posting...

I drove my van about 50 miles today and the issue seems to have been resolved. The rims for the front did not get hot as before and the braking was much better.

Now, the question is did they simply fix the immediate problem at hand... the pads contacting the rotors... and still leave me with the greater problem of either stuck calipers, clogged break lines or a defective and/or improperly adjusted master cylinder.

Time will tell.

Thanks for all for your efforts. If you care to add anything to this, please email me directly.

George

Reply to
G.I.O.

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