bay window radio ?

Get underneath and jumper the solenoid, like this:

Be sure shift is in NEUTRAL and wear glasses!

Speedy Jim

was able to start via jumper cables. twice; once when leaving primary jobsite, and once when leaving a second jobsite. ran it all the way home (35 minutes), stopped in the garage, and still won't start itself. will try to jumper the solenoid next, hopefully in the next 30 minutes.

second oddity, probably related: turn signals cause the radio to turn off, i'm assuming due to low voltage. i hope the radio isn't to blame; i can't imagine the memory connection would drain the battery. but the timing is certainly fishy.

key off, solenoid jumpered - definitely enough juice to engage the solenoid. louder than i thought it'd be. :O

can i assume this means the problem is related to the wiring of the switch? the ignition switch itself is known to be faulty; i have to turn the key all the way, and then hit a momentary toggle switch to engage the starter. turning the key off then kills the engine.

thanks for your help thus far!

You may have to use a voltmeter to find out what's going on.

I agree it's suspicious that this all started with the radio install. A connection may have gotten disturbed up front.

You didn't say what year, but early Bay Buses used the Headlight switch as a main power distribution point; often problems arose at the switch terminals.

Measure the voltage at the Red wire going into the Ignition switch. See what happens to that voltage when you turn the key On or engage the starter switch.

Jim

hmmm ... the starter solenoid moved but the engine never turned over. when i realized that, i tried a few times and the solenoid eventually stopped moving. i think the battery is just too weak at this point. i have it on the charger now (15 amp) to see if i can bring it back up to par.

it's a 76 bay (westy). i'm having a hard time understanding the schematics in the manual, which is (i think) why this has kicked my butt so badly. i'm also having a dickens of a time reaching the terminals on the switches up front. should the switches be removed to make this easier, or does it sound like i'm simply going about it in the wrong way?

On the '76, power comes in to the fuse block on the really FAT Red/Wh wire. The fuse block in this case merely acts as power distribution; there are NO fuses in either the Ignition or Starter circuits.

Anyway, the fat Red wire takes the power from the Red/Wh and feeds it to the Ignition switch, which is "D" on the diagram.

See what voltage you read on the fat Red/Wh wire and then on the Red wire to the Ignition switch. Measure this with the starter switch engaged and/or the Igntion turned On.

Jim

in the process of measuring voltages in the vicinity of the switch (as directed above) and having a "helper" hit the switches for me, the engine cranked up. not the first or second time, but after i had been fiddling a bit trying to get stable voltage readings. sounds like i re-disturbed something, huh? all this was after i charged the battery yet the switches still did nothing. i guess for the time being when i have this problem i should just wiggle all the wires in that vicinity.

meanwhile, if i can just get through high country bus festival ... if it weren't for that event coming up i'd not be sweating this so much (i have a type1 to drive around).

thanks so much for your help; i can guarantee you'll see more questions later, same bus and probably same crappy wiring. i've gotta do something to prevent these problems, but don't want to risk an inop bus when the festival is so close. is it a real nightmare to replace all wiring? lots and lotsa splices under that dash, gives me the willies (no offense to the jeep fanatics). :/

just replaced the ground strap connected to the battery; it had corrosion, so i'm betting the tranny strap is the same if not worse (it's under the vehicle, not inside). good idea, i'll work on that next. thanks!

btw, great story; it's the kind you'd never believe if you didn't know about the ground.

i have a few fuses here and there, and at least one wired in series with the starter switch (the momentary switch used to bypass the broken ignition switch). hard to tell what else is nonstandard. the wires are spliced a lot, and several of the splices use wires of unlike color. really makes for a nightmare, especially for someone leary of automotive electrical systems to begin with ...

hmpfff ... hooked the radio back up and hit the road for ~20 minutes. everything appeared to be ok until i hit the blinkers, at which time the radio cut off and /everything/ got dim ... i powered the radio off and made it home, after which i now have the original symptoms again. i unplugged the wiring from the radio so there's no chance it can drain the battery any more. tomorrow i'll charge the battery and try the same scenario without the radio connected. if i get the same symptoms again then i know the radio is fine and something's up with the charging system. i'm assuming the tranny-to-ground strap fits in there somewhere so i'll replace that first then have advanced auto test my charging system with their equipment.

if it sounds like i'm heading down the wrong path, please tell me now.

krikey. removed/brushed/reattached the tranny-to-frame ground strap, and the positive lead from the alternator to the battery as well. it was all ugly of course, it's now all shiny and clean. should make great contact. the battery is charged, and still the engine won't turn over. i've wiggled wires up front to no avail. the radio is unattached. perhaps it's a switch problem, i dunno. it's depressing - i'm supposed to leave in the am for hcbf and the bus won't start. i'm about ready to go looking for an auto mechanic to improve my chances of making it tomorrow.

okay, i think i may have more than one problem - which would definitely throw off my troubleshooting. i found that the starter switch was bad; closing the switch didn't connect the two terminals that were wired (at least my continuity tester didn't beep, i suppose it could have a very high resistance connection). so i found two other terminals that seemed to work correctly and rewired the switch for those. now the bus starts. with the radio still out of the circuit i went for the same 10min drive as last night, with lights on high and emergency blinkers going. i made it back, and the bus still starts. kinda sluggish, but it starts. i may take a longer trip a little later with the same configuration to determine whether i think the alternator is keeping up with the lights or not. if everything is ok, i'll then make the trip again with the radio connected and blaring and see where that puts me.

i checked battery voltage with engine off, it looks like about 12.5v. i cranked the engine and watched as i slowly revved higher and higher; the highest my vom read looked like about 13v. a little higher than with the engine off, but not much at all. searching through the archives it seems the voltage should have been 14+ volts; does my alternator need attention?

Measure the voltage right at the big B+ terminal on the Alt. Yes, you're correct; voltage should be a bit over 14V when it is recharging (like after cranking). Measure it at something like 2500 RPM.

Jim

just under 12.5 at engine off, just over 13 at 2500rpm. not good enough, i'm assuming?

Its charging, but its weak... should be enough if you drive a lot on highways. For city driving, you'll end up with a dead battery in a few days...

guess that explains my original predicament: runs fine unless the radio and lights are on. basically, i used more current from the battery than the alternator was able to replace. i'll just leave the radio unplugged for now to improve my chances of making all the way to hcbf tomorrow.

the next thing will be for me to figure out if i need a new alternator or if i can just replace the brushes.

thanks for all your input; with your help i've managed to keep another bus on the road, even if only for a little while.