Rear diagonal arm -- fasterner question

Good questions Remco,

I also would like the bushing of the diagonal arm and I did'n did it yet, because I feel that I don't have all the information I need.

Joao

72 Super 1302

Well, I am going in tonight.. Read up on some really colorful curses, have 5 foot breaker bar and am not afraid to use either :)

I'll let you know how I make out and will try to take pictures.

Remco

"That 17" allen bolt is to be "peened" according to Bentley.. What does this mean, exactly? "

If you look at the head of the bolt you will see three indentations spaced around it. When you reinstall the bolt you torque it to spec, and then use a large screwdriver or a punch to drive the metal flange that surrounds the bolt into one of the indentations so that the bolt cannot work itself loose.

If you look closely at the installation of the bolt prior to removal you will see what I'm talking about.

Chris

Well, I did it. It was actually pretty easy, but my body is off the frame. It will be a little harder laying under the car, I suspect.

I am not positive, but I think the spring plate has to be loosened from this arm if you want to get to the bushings. It would be hard to wrestle the springs if the arm was attached. Bentley says that it is critical to mark the spring plate and arm so one knows where it belongs when it is put back.

want to take everything off to stabilize the rust and repaint it. This is what the bolt look like: Hal mentioned, those ridges is where the surrounding metal issupposed to be peened into. I used a 17mm hex wrench slipped into a 5 foot pole to start to turn the bolt: did not want turn at first - probably because of the peenedsituation - but it turned after I got it started. I banged on the polewith a dead blow hammer to help it along. The old area bent backwithout any hassle - sweet! (thought I had to dremel the areainitially).

This is what the arm looks like slipped out of the socket. Suspect the arm can be brought down as well, if you're taking it off from below. I cut the brake line to replace it later so that made things do easy:

bolt and washer is just me documenting where things go to put itback together later. Hope this helps you, Joao. Remco

Thanks, Chris - I see what you mean. Appreciate the hint.

Thanks Remco,

It helps, but I impressed with the amount of rust you have in our car. It looks it was been on the bottom of the sea for several years.

"Remco" wrote:

Joao

72 Super 1302

Bottom of the sea? Close! it has lived most its live in New England... :)

It looks worse than it actually is - a lot of the mess appears to be the undercoating falling off. I've wirebrushed some of the areas in the front and it has actually come off pretty well. Using my air scaler, I have not found any rust-throughs or rot on the back of the bug (of course, that was only since yesterday). There is some rot under the front cross brace. A buddy of mine works on maintenance of huge machines and passed me this compound that does a really good job on sealing rust. It goes on lime green and dries black.

This car will be good training. After I get it done, I'll be on the lookout for a basket case convertible that no one wants :)

A couple of hours ago, I went to a shop and order the bushings. I show a picture of a T2 with the height root on the desk. The shop owner bought it to restore and it was a T2 from a neighbor of me when I lived on parent?s house. It is in a very bad shape. I think that the last time I saw it was 20 years ago.

Joao

72 Super 1302

Hi Remco,

I think you save me from a serious accident. After seeing your photos I went to take some photos of my suspension. On the right side we can see that the bushing is worn but on the left side the screw is loosen and I think that one washer is missing. I?m really angry with this situation. This is why a few weeks ago I put a post saying that I was feeling the rear of the car dancing. On the right side I have two washers close to the screw and on the left side only one. Also on the left side I can?t see the washer on the opposite side of the screw. Can you tell me the right position of the washers?

Joao

72 Super 1302

Wooah !!! Joao - Your car is in great shape if the rest is like that !!!!!!!!!!

No wonder you thought Remco had some rust issues (sorry remco ;-) )

Glad to hear you found a fault before it caused you trouble. Good proof of why the bolt is tightened then 'peened' !

I still cant get over how good you car looks ! Is it original or restored ?

Rich

Wow, Joao, your bug looks great!! That's original?? You've given me something to strive towards :) Fantastic!!

On mine, I have two washers closest to the socket part of the bolt. That is the same on both sides, left and right. I don't have a washer or washers on the thread end of the bolt.

One restore manual ("how to restore a VW beetle", I think) mentioned to carefully take note of the placement and quantity of these washers. I wonder if the placement can be different from car to car as perhaps they are used to adjust for alignment -- that's just a guess on my part, though. Why else note the placement, right? (but I over-analyze eveything) My bentley shows two washers where I found them: near the socket part of the bolt (and I trust that manual implicitly).

I'll just ask the question now for you: Would anyone here know for sure if that washer quantity and placement is variable and critical? .

That peening over was what I was initially wondering about as well.

Chris, another response to my question in this thread, mentioned what was meant and I see what he means now:

They seemed to have bent a bit of the edge of the hole that the bolt goes into into the groove present on the bolt. If you look carefully can see the distortion (unless they forgot to do it in your case).

I have not put mine back yet, but you can probably do it with a centerpunch by setting it along the edge - next to one of those grooves

- and smacking it with a hammer. One can probably use some threadlock but I'd rely on the original design.

Looking at mine again this afternoon, it does not appear that they originally peened into more than one groove.

The suspension was clean and I also give it a paint bath when I rebuild the engine that's why it looks fine. In general the car looks good. I will do a site with some photos soon. I would like to restore it completely but it is to expensive. This car was bought by my father in 1972 :-) and it was a daily driver for 25 years, It has some rust on the bottom of the heater channels. by the way I really would like to know the meaning of 'peened'. On the Haynes it says "...torque of 87 lb/ft and peened into the arm in order to lock it in position." It also says "Note the position of the spacer washers..." and I think that mine are out of position from looking to the photo on Haynes book.

Joao

72 Super 1302

We have the same doubts on this issue. On Haynes the washers are in both side of the arm. May be this explains the different camber I have on the rear suspension!

Joao

72 Super 1302

Now I understand...The Ingles is not my first language and some technical words are difficult to translate even using a dictionary.

Joao

72 Super 1302

One last question...no tree. It's easy to remove the old bushing? Is it a split bushing? Do you think that?s possible to put a new bushing and remove the old one with the arm on the car and withy no especial tools?

Joao

72 Super 1302

Btw, that 17mm allen bolt is supposed to be tightened to 12 m kg / 87 ft lbs before you peen it.

Not absolutely sure, but it looks like the rubber part of bushings just cuts off with a utility knife. You can then grab the metal sleeve with some locking pliers to pull them out.

I have not removed my bushing yet but let them soak in some Kroil to see if I can get them out without damaging them. For entertainment value, I want to see how hard it is to put them back in so don't want to mess them up too much. Maybe I'll have to put a large bolt and washer on both ends to act like a press. With woodworking screws on hard wood, I've use that waterless soap as a lubricant. It evaporates and leaves no water residue to aid rusting. Maybe that stuff will help press that rubber back in - it seems tight.

I'll let you know how I make out.

Remco

The diagram shown in the Haynes is for the double spring plate setup which, I believe, was only used on '69 & '70 IRS Beetles.

Don't quote me on this but I believe when Volkswagen went to the single spring plate setup that both washers were moved to the outside.

This page shows both washers to the outside:

I have two '72 Supers and both have both washers to the outside.

-- Scott

Let me know. My bushing will arrive on the end of the month. I will not peened the screw until I replace the bushing. When I replaced the bushing on the track arm control (I have a super) it was PIA. I used a jack with a wood against the ruff. I can use urethane bushing to replace the old ones, at lest they are easy to put on. I don?t want to remove the diagonal arm because of the brakes.

Joao

72 Super 1302