Timing question...

Could somebody tell me please, or point me towards an appropriate reference, where a 1964 Type 2 1500 motor (engine code O566079) in
combination with its stock distributor (Bosch ZV/JU4R3) should be timed at? Should it be at 7.5 or 10 degrees?
Thanks folks.
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Dangermouse wrote:

Really, you will have to come up with more difficult ones:
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm
:LOL:
Speedy Jim http://www.nls.net/mp/volks /
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What a useful resource! Thanks for that, 10 degrees BTDC it is then...

Hmmm, all right then, try this...
What started me thinking about my distributor today was initially the thought that I might install a Pertronix unit and do away with the points altogether. I'm not looking for a performance increase or anything, I realise that the Pertronix is purely a points replacement device but it would at least be consistent.
It looks like the only Pertronix unit available that might fit the bill for a 6V system is the 1845N6 (http://www.vintageperformance.com/retrorockets/volkswag.htm ), which fits a ZV/PAU 4 R2 dizzy which, according to the oldvolkshome.com link you provided, would be compatible with my Type 2 1500 motor mentioned above...
Bus & Pickup 1964-1965 * 1500 Distributor: VW 111-905-205L or M, Bosch ZV/JU4R3 (0231 147 002) > 111-905-205N or 113-905-205J, (Both VW Numbers are: 0231 137 005) > 315-905-205B, 0231 137 031 Can Use: VW 113-905-205A, Bosch ZV/PAU 4R2, 4R5 (0231 139 002), 113-905-205B, 0231 139 006, 311-905-205, ZV/PAU 4R4, 4R6 (0231 139 005) Points: 01 009 Condensor: 02 007 Rotor: 04 006 Cap: 03 001 Coil: 00 001 (Blue Coil: 00 016) Vacuum Can: 07 016 (NLA) Ignition Wires: 09 001 Spark Plug: W8AC Timing Set At:: 10deg BTDC Static or @ 800-950rpm w/strobe w/vacuum hose disconnected and plugged Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum Advance Only: 5-11deg @ 1.3 In. Hg, 23-28deg @ 3.5 In. Hg
(This Type 2 1500 engine is actually in a Beetle but I'm thinking that won't make a deal of difference (?))
But would the Pertronix unit fit the Bosch ZV/JU4 R3 dizzy do you think? Or if I choose to go with electronic ignition, am I looking at having to also locate a ZV/PAU 4 R2 dizzy to match it?
Then again, at $125 for the Pertronix, I might just can the idea for now. For that $$ I'd want to be pretty sure it was going to fit properly.
At the time I was installing this engine into the bug, I retained the dizzy from the (seized) 1965 1200 beetle engine that was coming out, for no better reason than it looked to be in better condition (i.e. it was shinier) then the one that was on the bus engine, and it seems to work well on there - the car's going well. But the fact is, I have no idea whether this (1965 Beetle 1200) dizzy is actually correct or even appropriate for running a Type 2, 1500 engine with regard to timing/spark advance etc... (I had no idea there were so many different dizzys available for VWs until I looked into it today). Now I'm wondering if this engine wouldn't be better off with its original and stock distributor, the Bosch ZV/JU4 R3 which came with it. (I can't tell what's on the car at the moment but will check its numbers when I get home this evening).
Now, if I decide to stick with stock, how can I find the correct replacement parts (needs a cap, rotor, points and condenser) for this distributor? Is there a good online supplier? Or even a list of Bosch catalogue numbers I could get the FLAPS to specifically order in? I took it to the local auto-electrical parts store and they were a bit hopeless. They weren't able to find any reference to it in their parts catalogues even when I provided them with the Bosch Part # for the distributor (0231 147 002). Where are folks getting their replacement ignition parts from for older setups and how can I determine what off-the-shelf replacement parts will fit my distributor?
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Well you did ask...
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OK, I can confirm that what's on there is what should be on there; the installed dizzy is a Bosch 0231 147 002.
Can I put a Pertronix unit in this?
If not, where can I get a replacement Cap and Rotor from? (or equivalent Bosch Part # that I might be able to order from here).
Ta, - DM
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Oh, and is it normal for the bit at the very bottom of the shaft (with the two teeth on it which contact the drive gear) to wobble slightly? Doesn't seem to be firmly attached to the shaft. I'm worried that if that were to break off it could do some extremely inconvenient damage down there...
I'll shut up now ;-)
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Dangermouse wrote:

HaHaHa
Yes, it should "wobble" (tech term). It's designed in to take up any mis-alignment between the shafts.
On fitting the Petronix, personally I would hold off. One could buy a boat-load of point sets for that $$.
Would it fit? Dunno. Start another thread and see if anyone has experience with it.
Jim
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Dangermouse wrote:

normal. It's attached with a solid steel pin through the center of the shaft, the pin is driven in with a hammer and secured in place with the little spring thingy that's wound around the wobbly piece. It's not going anywhere.
It needs to have a little play in it, i.e. "wobble".
Jan
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Thanks guys.
Carl at vintageperformance.com kindly got back to me and confirmed that there is a Pertronix module to fit my distributor (and its not even the most expensive one, but it ain't cheap neither).
But then I thought, isn't the cam lobe on my distributor designed to retard the spark on #3 by a few degrees to help with cooling this cylinder? I'm guessing that throwing a points replacement module on there is going to do away with this feature, would I be right?
Is this something that would do more harm than good then?
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Dangermouse wrote:

Your original distributor did not have the retard on #3, though the replacements would have. Basically when you run a vacuum only distributor, then you should have the retard on #3, otherwise no.
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Umm, but my stock distributor is a vacuum only unit...
...isnt it?
I guess I could determine if there is a retard on #3 on my distributor by hooking up a timing light and comparing the signal coming from #3 wire to the others?
If I do have the #3 retard on the lobe, would it be terribly unwise to sacrifice it by putting the pertronix on? Or does it make any difference? If I don't have it, then there isn't an issue.
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"Dangermouse" wrote:

If it is the original 1964 distributor then it wont have the retard as VW did not introduce it until the 1965 model year (Aug 64). It might have the reatrd as it may be a replacement anyway. Generally VW specified replacements for the pre 65 models with the retard as the problem existed prior to this date (they just hadn't identified it or come up with a practical solution). It is always best to have the retard feature when using the vacuum only distributors. In other cases it is unnecessary.
Best thing to do is check it as you have suggested. The retard will be 4 degrees at the crank, so will be very noticable with a strobe.
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