What about the new gas?

Fellow bussers:
What about the new gas? I'm a little worried because I don't know how old iron mixes with the new gas.
I've been buying regular gas without alcohol for my '67 bus with a
super beetle engine ('67 carb). I wonder if someone will comment on how it will run on the newly mandated gasohol? Will I have to make any modifications - carb, plugs, timing?
Should I maybe think about replacing the engine with one (single port, stock) that has been specially built for gas with alcohol for Washington State, not California?
Thanks.
And...
Beep Beep
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I've used E-10 and E-15 in my vw's for over 12 years without any modifications or problems. I will be using E-50 to E-85 in my Puma this summer. VW's in Brazil ran up to 100% alcohol for decades. I love the stuff, higher octane (up to 105 in the E-85 blend), cooler and longer burn (better for head temps) and less emmissions (Oil is carbon based while alcohol is an organic compound which breaks down). Enjoy....Dennis
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a2090944&f ="Den's Dogs</a>
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a0209382&vt=vp ">Den's 1977 Puma</a>
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Have you actually tried E-85 in your Puma yet? I'd be surprised if it ran at all with the stuff.
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href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a0209382&vt=vp ">Den's
Those dogs SCARE me! But I'm sure they're very nice :-) Very nice. Nice doggies. Nice d...d... R_U_N F_O_R Y_O_U_R L_I_F_E!
Here I am with my boss and my bus, two of the most important things in my life. I call the bus "The Frog." The cat's name is Scourge, the name of the ship's cat in "Far Side Of The World" (Patrick O'Brian), which I was reading when this abandoned/lost cat wandered up my road and took over.
http://toutle.com/scourge.jpg
Since we're sharing pictures:
My '67 bus:
http://toutle.com/041024_bus.jpg
2001 -- old engine must be replaced:
http://toutle.com/0_old.jpg
New engine, rescued from a'74 super beetle which had been wrecked many years before and was overgrown with grass and blackberry vines in a field. Compression was excellent, so it must have been wrecked shortly after a rebuild. I replaced the flywheel, generator, carburetor and bug muffler with same from the old engine, and performed a field modification to the transaxle (um, with a file) to allow the bolt behind the oil cooler to install:
http://toutle.com/0_new.jpg
It's in and ready to go:
http://toutle.com/0_its_in.jpg
Care must be taken to meditate and commiserate with one's ride after such a marriage between old bus and super beetle.
http://toutle.com/041024_bus.jpg
BTW, this engine started on the first turn of the key and is still in use now coming up on its fifth anniversary in late June.
Zoom Zoom....
Beep Beep
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down).
............Alcohol is also a carbon based molecule and petroleum is also an organic compound. All organic compounds are carbon based.
.........Ethanol-gasoline blends are just a government subsidy for agribusiness in my opinion............Petrolem based fertilizer is used to grow corn-----petroleum based energy is used process the corn into alcohol........Government subsidies are used in every step of manufacture, distribution and sale to bring down the cost of e-gas at the pump. Without a modern engine management system that adjusts mixture based on the resistance value of an 02 sensor, carbureted engines in older cars will run too lean on it which usually results in loss of power and poor mileage. The fix for that is to re-jet the carb and increasing the compression ratio of the engine would help use this fuel more efficiently as well. This is all dependent on the concentration of ethanol vs gasoline in the blend.......E-85 which has 85% ethanol blended with 15% gasoline won't work in an older vehicle without going to a carburetor which can be jetted properly to run much richer than normal and also you would need to get rid of all natural rubber in the fuel system from the tank to the fuel pump's diaphragm to the boots on your 1600 DP's intake manifold. The other potential problem for e-gas in an older vehicle is the rust problem in the gas tank and steel gas line that can result from the water absorption property of ethanol. This might not be real big problem in an area where the climate is dry and humidity levels average less than what many of us see here in the eastern states.
.......If all non-commercial vehicles were simply required to average at least 25 miles per gallon, you would solve the dependency on oil imports problem and get rid of a large portion of the emissions problem. I'd have to park 2 of my vehicles but I have 3 others that would satify that restriction easily. Here's another idea: Double the price of gas for vehicles that weigh more than 4,000 pounds and which don't have a commercial use permit..........bye bye Suburbans, Durangos, Hummers and Expeditions.
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The ever skeptical "Tim Rogers" emoted:

Yup. So, we gotta get that Solyent Green program rolling! Then you would have to be REAL careful with your inflection when you ask, "Whatcha running in the tank, Grandpa?"
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the price of gas for vehicles that weigh

And those of us who use pickup trucks for work outside of our jobs....or tow race cars....or get loads of manure to fertilize our gardens...or pick up a pile of VW parts...or etc. Don't punish everyone just because of soccer moms, please.
Sneaks '68 T1
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tow
a
...........Your concerns are reasonable. My simplistic suggestion would need a lot of examination of course and maybe get scrapped altogether. I have towed a notchback sedan for 300 miles in the past with an Altima and loaded it up with bags of gardening supplies on other occasions. Towing a large boat or a race car is a problem for a small vehicle though.
.....There are too many Americans riding around in 15 mpg vehicles with no apparent need to do so. The strain on the environment and the dependency on crackpot regimes in places like Venezuela is the result of this self indulgent lifestyle. The parking lot where I work is full of Tahoes, 4Runners, F-150's, Silverados, Navigators, etc., etc. Almost none of them are carpooling. Just driving around to work and home again in gigantic gas guzzlers while bitching about $3/gallon gasoline. It's just too stupid. I'd like to see a refinery built nearby here just to see some of them start crusading against what they themselves are actually causing.
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Okay, then, it sounds as if I'll be able to run a blend of maybe 15% to 25% alcohol/gasoline without doing any mods? The carb is easy enough to re-jet. Any suggestions on which size to use?
Thanks, Dennis and Tim, for your comments.
I wonder if there's a way to remove alcohol or most of it from an alcohol/gasoline blend? Distillation? Settling? Filtration? Then I can put the gas into the VW and drink the alcohol.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Before everyone thinks that turning to ethanol is easy, consider a few things. First, your mileage will go down. Power will also go down. Warm-ups will take longer. If the cost of 25% alcohol is the same as gas of the same volume, you lose (but maybe the environment wins - who knows for sure?)
You may have to adjust your float bowl, change your choke to closer to a winter setting, and change your accelerator pump to a more generous squirt. Bump up timing about 2 degrees advance.
Starting in cold weather should be more difficult - depending upon how cold it is and your percentage of alcohol. (For 80% alcohol, 60F is "cold". I kid you not.)
If someone wants to run 85% alcohol (or better), then be prepared for one hell of a lot of modifications, beginning with higher compression (10:1 is good), and a huge modification to the fuel preheat system, and for folks where it gets cool, a supplementary gas tank of gasoline for starting, and a manual start-n-choke regime. Finally, once you convert a Bug engine to run on 85% alcohol, there is no going back to gasoline without unconverting unless you want it to go away Real Soon.
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light a match... it burns off. ;)
--
KWW
'65 Beetle (Jenny the IOC)
  Click to see the full signature.
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Ok, ok now some reality. I just got back from an 800 mile run using E-85 only and got 1mpg better miliage on the trip than the same run using regular gas on the same trip a few months ago with my Ford Sport trac. Yes, the Puma will run on E-85. I have to much carb for a 1600 to run right on regular so the car likes the alcohol with the webers.
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a2090944&f ="Den's Dogs</a>
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a0209382&vt=vp ">Den's 1977 Puma</a>
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.......According to fordvehicles.com, your 4600 lb. Sport Trac gets about 21 mpg on the highway. That's actually not too bad for a five passenger truck with a 4'x5' cargo bed and is rated for towing more than 5000 lbs.
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Tim, I am just sharing the truth about what I'm doing and have done in "real world situations". My Sport trac does not get their rated mileage becuse I tow so I had it ordered with the 4.11 rear end gears, limited lock and the 4 wheel drive option (yes, the two wheel was standard). Remember, this is real world. Now for some of the other opinions that are treated as fact. All of the vehicles I have owned since 1979 have ran better on E-10. They have had no change at all to their tune ups or anything else. Better mileage and more power. I have owned Approx 12 cars and trucks including all the ACVWs during this period. I have used E-85 in my Sport trac as much as possible (E-85 is not available in all areas yet). It has started without problem with temps as low as 0 degrees F. I have much more towing power although the mileage drop is huge depending on the weight towed. I towed approx 4000 lbs 380 miles and got 11mpg. As far as btu's per gallon, I would guess that would depend on how much of it is used by your vehicle's engine in the cylinder or how much is burned by your converter. A lot of myths are treated as fact. My wife said that a lot of you guys are "book smart" and "door knob dumb".
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a2090944&f ="Den's Dogs</a>
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a0209382&vt=vp ">Den's 1977 Puma</a>
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..............At 11 mpg, I'm not sure what it is that E-85 is accomplishing for you other than lower emissions and more $$$$ for Archer Daniels Midland instead of Exxon.
.........I don't doubt that E-10 is a practical alternative to straight gasoline but how is it that these subsidies make any sense when that money is going from the tax payers to Archer Daniels Midland in addition to the actual price at the pump? Did you know that the Brazilians can't export alcohol for fuel to the USA because there's a 54 cents per gallon tariff on it? It doesn't take too much book learning to figure out who's behind that.
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I'm convinced that no matter who we elect, we're screwed. Wish there was a vialble 3rd party option just to send a message. Andy

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At 11mpg towing 4000 lbs vs 14 mpg with regular I am gaining a vehicle that shifts down less, an engine that runs easier and is easier to drive with a noticeable increase of power. Anyway I cannot imagine anyone who would rather send their fuel money to the countries who finance the people we are fighting rather than to the people who grow crops that can be distilled to run our vehicles in our own country. Must be more of that book learning, eh?
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a2090944&f ="Den's Dogs</a>
href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u@25706&a0209382&vt=vp ">Den's 1977 Puma</a>
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>

careful with wishful regulations Tim....it can bite you in the ass, when they decide all vehicles that we enjoy are old and inefficient enough to outlaw....we enjoy alot of freedoms here in the US....including our freedom to piss our money away how we want to...start to take away our freedoms and it won't be long till they are all gone...i, for one, won't support that...
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freedom
and
that...
............I was suggesting a mileage standard for new vehicles and possibly a price penalty when filling up at the gas station for certain vehicles that are often used for personal transportation but which are extremely inefficient in that role. Old cars are so few here in the northeast that nobody even thinks about them. I drive sometimes for more than a week without seeing a single car from the 60's or 70's and there aren't too many left from the 80's.
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