Where Have All the Flowers Gone?

Bob,

I just bought my first VW last June ('71 Std Beetle) and I'm over 40. This group has already answered several of my questions and I follow it regularly. I sure hope it doesn't dwindle!

BTW, I have also read all of your VW related posts on your blog and find your experience and advice excellent. Please keep them coming.

Thanks, Scott S.

Scott - this group will be about forever !

It's the numbers that might dwindle.

There are some air heads, that are just , well ' air heads ' ! and will always be so.

Here in the UK the AC VW scene is growing and very strong.

But as Bob has postd many a time - the scene is stong , but the cars aren't.

Kewl ! yes but strong - no :-(

conventional wisdome is hitting the UK as we speak - it will pass, then we'll be where your at !

Still - there are some that will keep the AC VW's going - even when it's not so popular Rich

Bob,

I just bought my first aircooled VW last weekend, at the age of 27. I've wanted one since my youth (as have many people of my generation), and there's been various points where I might have bought one but the right one did not present itself. Well, the other week I was just driving around and saw one for sale. Stopped and looked, couldn't find anything wrong with it beyond the paint. Called and ask, still no problems. Now I'm driving it and still haven't really found any problems, though a damp spot under the rear seat has me concerned today. Its about as new as old Beetles get though, being a '74, and is in pretty good shape.

The people I purchased it from were in their early thirties, with three kids. The dad bought it as a daily driver, but quickly realized it was too small for his job as a welder. Shouldn't gotten a van. Maybe they represent the kinds of people who bought VW's in the ninties. They've gotten a little older now, their commitments have deepened, and they no longer have time or money for a car that always needs a little fiddling.

It dissapoints me a bit that when I have a VW, the group is fairly quiet. I used to hang around in the late ninties and it was hopping back then, hundreds of posts a day as I recall. A lot of it was just static, but some of the characters from back then (John Connley, Shad Laws, Jake Raby, yourself) are still here and now appear to be major figures in the international VW scene. Has the pond just shrank, to where formerly normal-size fish now appear big? Who knows. Things are certainly different, but hopefully I can still get the parts and info I need, and a little bit of advice and comradere on the side. One other hand, I love to be different and it appears that a lot of the faddishness has blown over.

So, for everyone that's still here, thanks for still being here.

Peace, Harry

I plan on hanging out here until one of us croaks: Ramva or myself.

Many of our regulars have moved over to the more visually attractive web-based forums, where it is much easier to use pictures to help describe a problem or a solution. Here, pictures are not allowed; you can only post a link to a picture that resides somewhere on the net.

This is one thing that's causing us to lose some people. I am also active on those web based forums, but not many. I consider myself "old school" in the way that I come here for the subject matter, hard data. I don't care for the bells and whistles. This bare-bones text-only format has a certain appeal to me :)

If there was a way to use a monochrome green-on-black display with Windows XP and all the software.... LOL

The scene is still strong worldwide, but it is also evolving and alive. It changes, and people follow fads. Right now, we are "out", not hip enough for the younger, internet-raised generations. So be it, the other forums are "just as good" (no they are not, lol) for helping them support their vehicle.

It is also true that the number of eager fad-following "new" Bug owner teenagers is diminishing. They are more likely to buy a modern car for their needs, something that "only needs" go-fast stickers and massive wings, and killer stereo systems from Wal-Mart.

That's ok, too. To each their own. Our numbers may be fewer, but the "quality" of an aircooled VW owner is on the rise! Those of us crazy enough to hold on to them, are more willing and better prepared to take care of them, and we aren't easily intimidated to sell the car when it develops a problem. They are old, often neglected cars, and we understand that and choose to live with it. It's one of the things that make them so desirable. You can't honestly say a 2005 Honda has "personality"... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA in all the good and bad it presents itself.

Jan

I think it has a much to do with the rise of mailing lists and the loss of popularity of Usenet as anything else. With mailing lists many of the jerks and spammers are weeded out. I've dropped many new groups over the years because I got tired of the jerks in the group. On mailing lists it's a simple matter for the list owner to kick someone out.

Up here in the Pacific Northwet, air cooled VW's are pretty much as popular as ever but it's rare that I talk to another Bug owner that has heard of RAMVA. It's natural that the numbers are dwindling but at certain point the air cooled VW's will be worth to much for most of the hashers to mess with.

Tony

I think that the web based forums are one of the reasons that we do not see as much activity here at Ramva. I do see some of the same people from the old days or Ramva on other forums. Most of the people in my neighborhood that think my VW is cool are under 10. The teens seem more interested in the Hondas with the wings and coffee can exhaust systems.

I get a lot of teenage girls that tell me my Baja Bug with the camouflage paint job is cool. I guess it's a good good thing they like the car and not me...

Tony

I identify with what Dennis said. I find those protracted public displays of stupidity painful to be near. Like passing the same three people brawling on the sidewalk every day.

So I changed my route.

When I do check in on ramva these days, there are only a few new posts. But that doesn't seem to be the case on the web-based forums I read. Perhaps the ease of use helps. Or maybe that some of them are now moderated. It depends on the moderator I guess.

But I think the decline in the number of roadworthy aircooled cars is inevitable. The cars do wear out, sooner when in the wrong hands, eventually in any case.

When is the last time you saw a Ford Model A being used for daily transportation?

The internet has been a great tool for the finding of cars and parts and information. Perhaps unavoidably, the quality of those cars, parts and information varies wildly. An entire generation now views the internet as a reliable way to perform "research". "Thinking for yourself" can be accomplished by taking a pole of people you don't know and who don't even use their actual names when posting.

Max Welton

I just bought my first bug in over 15 years last week and so far have had two (adult) people come up to me and say "cool car!". It's not that the cars are fading in their appeal, it's just that as the years go by they are less common. Either way, I'm not the only one on the block with a bug, but mine is way cooler than the other guys :-)

I agree with Bill....flamewars are not the problem, they happen on the internet forums too...they just get deleted there.. the main reason for the decline here, is new folks to the scene have no idea what usenet is.... everything has to start with "WWW.".... the online forums provide more specialized groups for folks to hang out in, with folks that think the way they do.... RAMVA doesn't have that.... John Henry for example isn't hanging out in a broad group he hangs out in the split and oval section at thesamba.com... this way he avoids heart attacks when folks like Shaggie want to trim an earlier bug into a baja...etc.... folks want other folks that they have something in common with....new "age" new forums...

Hi Shag

well it is a bit quieter here without you !

Would be good to see you back here with a new toy :-)

Rich

There is a competing Yahoo group called the Air-Cooled Volkswagen Club that is still fairly busy. Newsgroups as a whole are becoming passe, I fear.

Charles of Schaumburg.

I am still here... been following the antics of RAMVA for since about 1997, Sadly the 69 is gone, but the '66... I still have and it needs a lot of work to get it back on the road. I will be replacing the wiring harness after the holiday.. so look for some pictures on that, and Hopefully soon the transaxle comes in... The engine has been built and is ready to put in. But yes, I remember when I couldnt wait for the next update on John's 57, or what Shag was gonna do next with the LCB... My heater channel web pages still get lots of hits and I get emails all the time saying thanks for the info... But yeah I am still a follower of RAMVA and will be for some time to come

If you go to google groups like bob said you can see the archives... posts start in 1995 with the most being between 1999 and 2002... which was at the height of RAMVA I suppose... 9000 something posts in Feb 2002 but most are prolly just LOL or LMAO from Jan... Actuall it was in 1999 when John finished the 57 and in 2001 I was really busy on the 69 with the heater channel and others had projects going... shag was doing all the LCB adventures... But the number of posts have been steadily declining since

I'm still here and can tell you theres no lack in intrest in aircooled VW's here in my area. I am repairing as many or more for people in their 40's and older that have been drivers, some have the beetles they bought new.

The Newsgroup seemed to get away from the help/technical aspect to highschool antics,(off topic discussion, so you have seen a major drop in the last few years. and no shaggie....lol

Shag stop in sometime I'm sure I still have a baja for you.

Mario V> If you go to google groups like bob said you can see the archives... posts

To be honest, I do disagree. At least were I live, the shows and local meetings are getting busier and busier. When I first bought my '66 back in 1998, it was hard to find local enthuiasts group meetings, but now they happen too frequently for me to attend. Today, it is even easier to own a classic VW, especially with the network of specialists and enthuiast groups which have appeared.

I believe that the slowing down of RAMVA it is due to the evolution of the Internet, and the move away from the old Usenet groups to web-based Forums such as Volkszone, ShopTalkForums, TheSamba.com, (and so on). In 1998, when I first started posting, I wrote from a usenet client on a 486 DX4-100 connected to a 28.8 dialup modem!

What you do say about the ownership status of VW's is also true. Young people buy a "cool" VW, the breaks due to bad maintenece, then they sell/scrap it buy a Toyota (this was the case of the PO of my 1303S). But wasn't this always the case? 10 years ago, nobody thought twice about scrapping a "commonplace" Beetle. But nowadays, the car's classic status will usually ensure that the car is saved. However, the core base of enthuiasts is always there, coming and going, but never actually leaving.

I have to say, I do fondly remember those early days of RAMVA, and although I don't post here as frequently as I once did, I certainly won't leave :-)

Speaking of which, I am very close to getting my 4.77MHz IBM 5150 with green display to run a newsgroup client. Already got the IRC client sorted for the New Years chat ;-)