Serious Bentley Manual Problems

I have never had a software program that failed on newer systems upgraded so it would work. Certainly many many programs do not work on XP that worked prior. How many of them (over a couple of years old) were supported by their creators?

How about oil??? A many retailers still have oil on hand that may be a year or two old. That oil may not meet the specifications of today's cars. It may say OK for VW spec 5546, but who knows what that is and who knows that the 2004 model requires spec 5587? Yea you can go to an Autozone and buy an oil that may have only one letter different on the label and it may not meet the specs of you new car.

You are welcome to your opinion, I however believe the retailer does have an obligation to their customer. I don't believe Bentley is responsible for the changes Microsoft made. It would be nice if they did offer a better solution but they may not even have a current version of that CD. That CD was issued over 10 years ago!!

Reply to
Joseph Meehan
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I think it would be nice. However I have also seen many many old CD's in pretty looking packages at shows and other places that look ALMOST original. They are almost always for sale at prices far below the going rate and often not well marked. Some are new original CD, but are just old. They are almost always old versions of popular products. Some I would guess are new stock that did not sell, some used, but being re-sold and some pirated. In any case It it fair to expect Bentley to maybe replace the original for maybe two or three different owners?

Sorry. I just don't agree with you. I think the first place Kent should have went should have been to the retailer. As far as I have read, he has made no effort at all to receive an adjustment from the retailer. That should have been his first stop after finding that it was an out of date disk.

What would you do if you got a bottle of milk home from the grocery and found it was dated last week and was sour? Demand the bottler replace it or return it to the grocery?

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

I see what you are saying, but the way Bentley packages these products is that the disc contains a reader and data, which is different from most types of software. As best I can determine, it is the reader that has the conflicts with newer OS. They should make updated reades, capable of accessing older info. I have paper manuals I owned since the 70's. It seems wrong that they make a product that cannot be accessed in just a few years. Even the latest vesrions of Adobe Acrobat can open the oldest of pdf files. A lack of such compliance seems the work of amateurs, who have no business selling software.

Again, I understand your point, but the situation you describe is different. The packaging on these discs specifically says it works with various versions of windows. It doesn't say "current versions of these OS as of the date of publishing", which is probably what they meant. Oil packaging usually has "meets model specs for 2004 gas engines" or words to that effect. Perhaps a minor difference, but a difference none the less.

Reply to
Tony Bad

Jim B.

Reply to
jimbehning

Agreed. I'm also surprised that he hasn't gone there - it would have been my first stop, too.

Why, I'd go and punch the cow, of course.

-Chris

Reply to
starburst

Maybe, but I'd.check here first...

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Tony

Reply to
Tony Bad

Kent clearly stated that was not the case. Are you just trolling?

In the earlier thread (which I originated), Kent said he ordered it from

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- hardly a bootlegger. In that same post, for what it's worth, he also explicitly argued against purchasing pirated software.

I'd like to mention that I initially ordered the CD version of the manual myself, also from germanautoparts.com. I then got cold feet after thinking about it a bit more (for exactly the sort of reasons that launched this present thread), and I emailed them back asking if I could switch to the print version. They had not shipped the CD yet, so they substituted the print version, no problem. Excellent customer support.

I'm finding the print manual extremely helpful, and thus far quite accurate, on my '95 Cabrio.

Reply to
Walter Harley

Folks, we are talking IE and Netscape as if they are interchangeable.

I would want to know exactly what is installed with the old version of Netscape that the old version of CD relies on to be there.

It might be as simple as installing just that component or file and foregoing the rest of the drama.

Bad programming on the CD guys fault, but the best solution would be for Bentley to produce a patch for owners of new OSs and old CDs.

TBerk

Reply to
T

It would be nice. I had a whole box of software I dumped over the last couple of years from a number of manufacturers.

BTW the programs are still readable. You just need to keep your old computer, operating system etc on hand. I have one machine I keep just for that use. However it is not old enough for some of my older software.

I have to admit that I also believe they 'should' provide a update path if at all possible. However this was a 10+ year old package and I guess you need to draw the line somewhere.

While I agree that they did not word that well. They should have known and any reader of those words should have known that they had no way of knowing what the future might bring. In reality I believe the argument could be made, and would likely be made by an lawyer if it went to court, that those words must have meant the versions listed and any newer available at the time the words were written since no one would know about future versions. Of course the argument could well be made that a a reasonable person might have thought otherwise.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

Yea, I lost a scanner on one upgrade a few years ago. My new one is a lot better however. :-)

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

I am sorry for using the term bootlegger. That was wrong.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

I can't answer your question, but remember that Microsoft was charged with intentionally making changes that caused Netscape to fail. Anyone know how that turned out?

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

Peace Mr. Meehan. I don't care what the newspapers say, I'm not the guy who stole your lollipop!

Well, it looks like somebody went back to an earlier post and discovered that I purchased the subject CD from Mark at Adir Bentley Publishers - EVA2 VW GTI, Golf, Jetta, Service Manual: 1985-1992 Electronic Edition ISBN 0-8376-0759-0 W42 CD-ROM VW A2 92.03

Okay, pop quiz folks. Where in this information can the distributor or consumer determine that this is an obsolete product that will no longer work on current operating systems? Is that Mr. Meehan with his hand up in the back row? Great answer! YOU CAN'T!

Now, since I ponied up the big bucks for this fine product, I was the guy that got to open the outer cardboard wrapping. No turning back now. Inside was the familiar shrink-wrapped jewel case with the obligatory product information. Still no indication that it wouldn't run on my system, so I broke the plastic seal and loaded it up on my computer. Well, you all know by now what happened next...

I believe someone asked, "how could Bentley be expected to notify all the first-, second-, and third-party distributors out there that they may be offering a product as new that no longer runs on current computers?" The answer is they don't have to. The consumers that eventually purchase the product and find out it doesn't work will come to them. Like I did. And what should Bentley do? They should let the customer keep the friggin useless 10 cent obsolete CD (after verifying the serial number), and send them an equivalent replacement product. Or offer a downloadable patch. Or agree to reimburse the dealer who originally sold it so he doesn't have to take it in the shorts for refunding the customer's money. Or refund the customer's purchase price directly.

But instead, they want me to pay postage to send the obsolete CD that I just paid $82 back to them with a letter "requesting" replacement, and then wait patiently and quietly until a micro-fiche based Version 2 CD WITHOUT WIRING DIAGRAMS is sent back to me at their leisure. Or even better, I can opt for the print version of manual and eat the CD premium that I already paid.

No way folks. I don't want Mark at Adirondack to have to eat his cost for this "open" CD if he refunds my money. He's already out the time it's taking him to deal with the issue. And I'm out both time and money. Bentley screwed up on this one when they originally distributed this product and they need to settle up. Plus a little extra for my trouble. I'm holding out for the Version 2 CD (without wiring diagrams) plus the latest print version (so I have access to the wiring diagrams). As far as I'm concerned, this is the only equitable exchange.

Reply to
Kent

Kent wrote: ....

Sorry if I offended you in any way. I guess I should have taken into consideration that this is a car newsgroup not a computer newsgroup. I did come off sounding too hard on you.

That said, I have the CD version for my 2002 NB Diesel. The print version was not available when I bought it. It does work for me (at least on my older computer) but I would be happy to send it back for a good print version. It's OK but I like the print version better, especially for the wiring diagrams.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

ultra-paranoid

You bought it from Adirondack, it goes back to the retailer. End of story. Please get that through your thick head.

>
Reply to
Biz

Was this item delivered by Bentley to Mark three months ago, or eight years ago? If it is old stock, Mark must bear some of the blame, for not managing his inventory. If Bentley delivered this product after the new operating systems were out, they are responsible. If they delivered this product before XP was even a glimmer in Bill Gate's eye, the issue isn't nearly as clear as you would like it to be.

DS

Reply to
DFS

I'm pretty thick, but I don't see what it has to do with this issue. Mark was not responsible. I was not responsible. Bentley was clearly responsible, and they have wisely decided to send me the Version 2 CD and the print manual free of charge. But thanks anyway for the words of encouragement.

Reply to
Kent

So how was Bentley for not knowing what Bill Gates was going to do after they (Bentley) sold their product? Remember they sold it not to you but to others. No where on the package did it say it would be compatible with all future versions of Windows and IE. You may have been mislead to thinking that due to the wording on the package, but don't you think it would be a little unreasonable for anyone to assure that a product would work with versions of other programs not yet written by other unrelated manufacturers?

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

GM, Ford and others have been held legally accountable for damages sustained by people injured in cars that met the standards of their time, but were later found to be dangerous...many years after they were made and sold. I agree that it seems almost unfair to hold someone accountable for something they could not foresee...but it happens!

Reply to
Tony Bad

I believe in those cases they were held accountable because while they did meet then enforce codes, they produced a product that was unsafe in a way they should have known and in fact tried to hide after experience proved they had erred thereby keeping information from the public that they could have used to protect themselves.

Reply to
Joseph Meehan

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