Bigblock? Smallblock?

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SWEET!!! Love the all original 4dr, 4spd, 409...still has the generator!!! The red '65 Impala is awesome too!


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"Shades2" wrote: > The 305 is a Small Block. The only Small block that has more > cubic > inches than a Big Block is a 400 which is bigger than the > classis 396. If > its under 400ci its a small block. We wont get into the > 348/409 family. The > 305 is one of the worst engines ever made. ALLOT of the 305 > blocks were made > on Mexico and were far below junk. They had a high sand > content and the > starter bolt holes liked to strip out. 350's are EVERYWHERE > and a direct > bolt in and lots more power without sacrificing economy. The > only hitch > might be the exhaust manifolds. > > > Don't even bother considering 305 anything...not worth the > time! 350, > 400, even a 307 would be MUCH better > > > >
> > > >I have a 1990 Chevy Caprice. It has a 5.0 liter 305 according > to the > > VIN and the block. Unfortunately, It doesn't say if its a BB > or SB. I > > was wondering if it would be a short block or big block. > Finding parts > > on online auctions is difficult when you don't know. Also > considering > > upgrading to the 5.7L 350. From what I hear, it should work. > The old > > engine is probably in too poor of condition to be rebuilt. > What do > > you think? > > > > The car ran fine until one day I put the pedal to the > metal. The > > sound of breaking metal and slipping timing was followed by > silence. > > I coasted about 3 blocks before I used the parking brake to > stop. > > Before that, it only made a slight ticking noise. I found > out later > > that the ticking was the crankshaft hitting a broken rod. It > wasn't a > > tapping valve like people suggested. I also found a > brownish-black > > sludge in the cylinder with the broken rod. > > > > It's old over-heated coolant mixed with carbon buildup. I > haven't > > taken the entire engine out yet. The pistons, cam, crank, > pan, and > > rods are the only thing attached to the block(besides the > tranny). The > > engine is still in the car. It is actually sitting on the > frame. Both > > mounts' rubber is completely gone. The only things that > might be > > salvageable would be the block(if not cracked), the > pistons(if not > > broken), valve springs and retainers, and the heads(if not > cracked). > > > > Things wrong with the 305 5.0L: cracked intake manifold, > bent rods > > (due to broken rod), possible cracked head, possibly had a > blown head > > gasket, 1 broke rod (pushed it down about 2 1/2" with finger > while > > other pistons stayed in place), 7 seized pistons(8th was > completely > > broken from crank months before, apparently), stretched > timing chain, > > cam timing off by 90 degrees, shattered cam thrust washer > plate(don't > > know the actual name. I'ts the bolted on plate behind the > cam gear.), > > found about 4 1/2 quarts of pure coolant and water in oil > pan(about 5 > > 1/2 quarts of oil also found in the oil pan.) > > > > -- > > Posted using the http://www.autoforumz.com interface, at author's request > > Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet > standards > > Topic URL: > > http://www.autoforumz.com/Chevrolet-Bigblock-Smallblock-ftopict103722.html > > Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report > abuse: > > http://www.autoforumz.com/eform.php?pH0953
UPDATE
Another thing I can rub in my dads face! I told him it was probably a small block. Ive decided not to use the original block any way. I took the oil pan off tonight. I found a little more than oil or coolant in the pan. No, not metal shavings. I found that one con rod had in fact broken. I did not know for a fact that the rod broke. But, I was right...unfortunately. It was broken into three pieces. My car racing neighbor was actually surprised to see the pieces. He said he only saw rods broken like that in cars equipped with NOS. Also, I forgot to mention in my first post that my car has an auto tranny.
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"Shades2" wrote: > The 305 is a Small Block. The only Small block that has more > cubic > inches than a Big Block is a 400 which is bigger than the > classis 396. If > its under 400ci its a small block. We wont get into the > 348/409 family. The > 305 is one of the worst engines ever made. ALLOT of the 305 > blocks were made > on Mexico and were far below junk. They had a high sand > content and the > starter bolt holes liked to strip out. 350's are EVERYWHERE > and a direct > bolt in and lots more power without sacrificing economy. The > only hitch > might be the exhaust manifolds. > > > Don't even bother considering 305 anything...not worth the > time! 350, > 400, even a 307 would be MUCH better > > > >
> > > >I have a 1990 Chevy Caprice. It has a 5.0 liter 305 according > to the > > VIN and the block. Unfortunately, It doesn't say if its a BB > or SB. I > > was wondering if it would be a short block or big block. > Finding parts > > on online auctions is difficult when you don't know. Also > considering > > upgrading to the 5.7L 350. From what I hear, it should work. > The old > > engine is probably in too poor of condition to be rebuilt. > What do > > you think? > > > > The car ran fine until one day I put the pedal to the > metal. The > > sound of breaking metal and slipping timing was followed by > silence. > > I coasted about 3 blocks before I used the parking brake to > stop. > > Before that, it only made a slight ticking noise. I found > out later > > that the ticking was the crankshaft hitting a broken rod. It > wasn't a > > tapping valve like people suggested. I also found a > brownish-black > > sludge in the cylinder with the broken rod. > > > > It's old over-heated coolant mixed with carbon buildup. I > haven't > > taken the entire engine out yet. The pistons, cam, crank, > pan, and > > rods are the only thing attached to the block(besides the > tranny). The > > engine is still in the car. It is actually sitting on the > frame. Both > > mounts' rubber is completely gone. The only things that > might be > > salvageable would be the block(if not cracked), the > pistons(if not > > broken), valve springs and retainers, and the heads(if not > cracked). > > > > Things wrong with the 305 5.0L: cracked intake manifold, > bent rods > > (due to broken rod), possible cracked head, possibly had a > blown head > > gasket, 1 broke rod (pushed it down about 2 1/2" with finger > while > > other pistons stayed in place), 7 seized pistons(8th was > completely > > broken from crank months before, apparently), stretched > timing chain, > > cam timing off by 90 degrees, shattered cam thrust washer > plate(don't > > know the actual name. I'ts the bolted on plate behind the > cam gear.), > > found about 4 1/2 quarts of pure coolant and water in oil > pan(about 5 > > 1/2 quarts of oil also found in the oil pan.) > > > > -- > > Posted using the http://www.autoforumz.com interface, at author's request > > Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet > standards > > Topic URL: > > http://www.autoforumz.com/Chevrolet-Bigblock-Smallblock-ftopict103722.html > > Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report > abuse: > > http://www.autoforumz.com/eform.php?pH0953
Ignore this. I messed up.
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Without entering the pissing match that "Hairy" n "Shades" are having I will tell you that the 305 is a SB or Small Block. The 5.7 litre or 350 engine is a direct bolt in and will serve you well when treated properly. The terms long block and short block refer to partially assembled engines of any displacement being either a Small or Big block of any size. A short block is partially assembled without heads and a long block is partially assembled with heads.
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On Thu, 17 Feb 2005 11:33:54 -0500, BadBow99S10 wrote:

Small block = 305
and a short block is the block, with a crank, pistons and cam and nothing else.
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My advice is to ck with a dealer for pricing on a 350 "replacement engine and compare that to a junk yard 350. You will still have to get an intake manifold but they are cheap. That should cost you $1200-$1500, so you can decide if you are going to keep the car for a long time and if the rest of the car is worth it. As for me, I've owned my '70 Blazer since '78 and will go to the grave when they pry my cold dead fingers off-----wait a minute---That's for my guns, not my Blazer!

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wrote something wonderfully witty:

Exactly what he needs can be found brand spankin new for $1,469.90 http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/store/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_IDQ6&Category_IDt
The 10067353 universal 4 Bolt main block 350 is a brand new long block used to cover most GM applications from 1970-1985. It is our lowest priced 350 and is great as a small block replacement or V-8 retrofit into any vehicle. This brand new crate engine comes with a GM nation wide warranty and is covered for 3 years or 50,000 miles when used in applicable GM vehicles. Check out our Warranty Information for full details. The specs of the motor are as follows: (4) Bolt main block with a (2) piece rear main seal. Cast Iron Crank. LT/LT4 Powdered Metal connecting rods. Cast Pistons, (dished). Hydraulic flat tappet cam, (.383 intake / .401 exhaust) and a 112-degree lobe separation. Cast Iron Cylinder heads with a 76cc combustion chamber. (Non vortec design) 8.5:1 compression ratio. Left or Right hand dipstick. (4) Quart oil pan. Timing tabs for a 6 or an 8 balancer.
Now that being said; if I was keeping the car and had an extra 2-grand to throw at it I would go with a ZZ4 350CI 355HP HO Engine with Aluminum Heads for $3,779.00. This can be found at the following URL http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_IDE6&Category_ID=2 &

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I opted for #12355345, 300hp motor, that cost around $2200 cus I wanted more power (but not so much that I had to buy premium gas)! I am VERY pleased, one of my better moves. Although my 70 blazer looks stock, I have "upgraded" a 78 disc brake front end, power booster, the 300hp crate motor, 700R4 trans, ltd slip rear and 40gal gas tank. I did the engine and trans at the same time ('98) and was able to keep the drive shafts the same by moving the tc back 5/8-3/4 and the engine mts 1" forward. I had to drill 18 new holes in the frame but otherwise, I'd had to change both frt and rear drive shafts and relocate my 4wd shifter and console. It works real well and again, I'd highly recommend the replacement "crate motor" to anyone who's keeping the vehicle for some time. LD

http://www.gmpartsdepot.com/product1.aspx?SID=2&Product_IDE6&Category_ID=2 &
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----------
I did the same for my 89 Chevy, but went ahead with the standard 350, and changed it over to a roller cam/roller rockers and a compcam, for about the same price. Figure I got around 300 hp. It was so easy to do (with some minor knuckle busting here and there), that I'm surprised more people don't do it. As long as your ride is in great shape, you would still be way a'head of the game if you had to have a shop do it. A 2005 version of my truck is in the 45,000.00 range for Pete's sake! With a new interior and paint job, it would still be cheaper by thousands.
HDS
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It is a small block and like one of the other posters said you would be ahead of the game to just get a crate motor and change it out.
BadBow99S10 wrote:

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Hi,     Sorry about your engine. What a mess. Your engine or any other engine from 400 cu in on down is a small block. 400s are rare. A short block is one without the heads and intake. Big blocks are from old 396's up. The bb block is a huge motor in appearence. The heads are about twice the size of the small block. There is no mistaking them. Big blocks seem hard to find. There is an abundance of 350's in many places. Check your local news paper for engines. Make sure that the heads or block are not cracked. Over heating on a sb Chevy can easily crack heads. Get a reciept from the seller stating that the blocks or heads are not cracked. This way you can get your money back if they are. Pretty much all the small blocks parts are interchangable. For a good rebuilder engine you should pay around $50.00 and up. A good source is your "thrifty ads" or equivalent. These are the ads that people run to sell personal and odd stuff usually under $500.00. Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays are your best bet. Good luck to you. Jessie
BadBow99S10 wrote:

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"Jessie Herrera" wrote: > Hi, >     Sorry about your engine. What a mess. Your engine or any > other engine > from 400 cu in on down is a small block. 400s are rare. A > short block is > one without the heads and intake. Big blocks are from old > 396's up. The > bb block is a huge motor in appearence. The heads are about > twice the > size of the small block. There is no mistaking them. Big > blocks seem > hard to find. There is an abundance of 350's in many places. > Check your > local news paper for engines. Make sure that the heads or > block are not > cracked. Over heating on a sb Chevy can easily crack heads. > Get a > reciept from the seller stating that the blocks or heads are > not > cracked. This way you can get your money back if they are. > Pretty much > all the small blocks parts are interchangable. For a good > rebuilder > engine you should pay around $50.00 and up. A good source is > your > "thrifty ads" or equivalent. These are the ads that people run > to sell > personal and odd stuff usually under $500.00. Fridays, > Saturdays, and > Sundays are your best bet. Good luck to you. > Jessie > > > BadBow99S10 wrote: > > > I have a 1990 Chevy Caprice. It has a 5.0 liter 305 > according to the > > VIN and the block. Unfortunately, It doesnt say if its a BB > or SB. I > > was wondering if it would be a short block or big block. > Finding parts > > on online auctions is difficult when you dont know. Also > considering > > upgrading to the 5.7L 350. From what I hear, it should work. > The old > > engine is probably in too poor of condition to be rebuilt. > What do > > you think? > > > > The car ran fine until one day I put the pedal to the > metal. The > > sound of breaking metal and slipping timing was followed by > silence. > > I coasted about 3 blocks before I used the parking brake to > stop. > > Before that, it only made a slight ticking noise. I found > out later > > that the ticking was the crankshaft hitting a broken rod. It > wasnt a > > tapping valve like people suggested. I also found a > brownish-black > > sludge in the cylinder with the broken rod. > > > > Its old over-heated coolant mixed with carbon buildup. I > havent > > taken the entire engine out yet. The pistons, cam, crank, > pan, and > > rods are the only thing attached to the block(besides the > tranny). The > > engine is still in the car. It is actually sitting on the > frame. Both > > mounts rubber is completely gone. The only things that > might be > > salvageable would be the block(if not cracked), the > pistons(if not > > broken), valve springs and retainers, and the heads(if not > cracked). > > > > Things wrong with the 305 5.0L: cracked intake manifold, > bent rods > > (due to broken rod), possible cracked head, possibly had a > blown head > > gasket, 1 broke rod (pushed it down about 2 1/2" with finger > while > > other pistons stayed in place), 7 seized pistons(8th was > completely > > broken from crank months before, apparently), stretched > timing chain, > > cam timing off by 90 degrees, shattered cam thrust washer > plate(dont > > know the actual name. Its the bolted on plate behind the > cam gear.), > > found about 4 1/2 quarts of pure coolant and water in oil > pan(about 5 > > 1/2 quarts of oil also found in the oil pan.) > >
Thanks. That answers my question. I already have my 350 block on the way. Ive already paid $107.50($227.50 after shipping) for my block. I think Im going to use SB 350 caprice heads(modified) and the intake as well. I might decide to get another vehicle in the next few days. If I do, I might take my time and make the 350 .030 motor into a 383. Thank you everyone.
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Your engine or any other engine

Now, there's a contradiction for you.
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Hi,     It's not a contradiction. They made them that way. I'm not a chevy engineer. Small blocks are 262, 283, 327, 302, 305, 350, and Small block 400 (they look just like the 350.) The 302 was in the early Z28s The 400 was a siamese motor. There was no room between the cylinders. They got no proper cooling although the cranks are used for sb 383's.     The bib blocks were 366?, 396, 402, 409, 427, and 454. They also make a truck block that is 427 and 454. These are taller that their car counterparts. The big blocks are much larger than the small blocks. Even the 400.     I hope this helps you. Jessie
Hairy wrote:

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I'm no expert on this either, but wasn't the first small block in '55 a 265, not a 262? And you've listed the 409 as a big block. I believe it was part of the engine family that started with the 348 in '58. My memory is getting fainter about all this, but I believe I'm right on those two points.
Garrett Fulton
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Garrett Fulton wrote:

You are.
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On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 07:50:27 -0500, "Garrett Fulton"

there also was a 262 V8... they also forgot the 307. and the 366 was also a truck block. you're right about the 409 W motor.. different era completely.
-Bret

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wrote:

Lets not forget the 348W, with out which there wouldn't have been a 409 for the beach boys to sing about., or the very first Chevy v-8 90 degree over head valve engine, the 288 cid.
Whitelightning
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wrote:

Hey, thanks for mentioning the 288. I didn't know about that one and was skeptical till I looked it up. Way before my time. Still, both W engines and the 288 are irrelevant in a Bigblock-Smallblock discussion. H
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wrote:

degree
Bigblock-Smallblock
Garrett I just did a quick search on it and this was all I came up with.
THE FIRST CHEVROLET V-8: If asked, most people would say that Chevy introduced its first V-8 in 1955. They only missed it by nearly 40 years. In late 1917, Chevy introduced the Series D equipped with a 288 cu. in. V-8. Only 2781 of the Series D's were built when production ended in early 1919. It would be 1955 before a V-8 reappeared in Chevrolets.
H
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