Diesel Fuel Prices

If the shoe fits.

If companies are artificially controlling prices through some illegal mechanism then yes, there should be proof available. Instead you just give me your personal opinions and call it proof. In actuality your beliefs are just based on what suits your own warped viewpoints. At least you admit you have no proof.

And with you it currently does.

LOL, really? I suspect that if they are then yes, there is some proof somewhere but that doesn't mean that I or anyone else will be able to find it. There are plenty of unsolved crimes and mysteries in the world because the "proof" either doesn't exist or is hidden too well to be found. Then again, perhaps they are simply shifting resources for their best gain which is not illegal at all.

Actually Miles, you are the one that is providing the opinions that make what I say true. You are the one that says over and over that it is the consumer will be the force that will drive new technology and I agree with you on this. The part that you try to hide from is the motivation the consumer needs to do it. Oh wait, you have given the motivation for the consumer, economic feasibility. So let's see, according to YOU, the consumer will drive the move to newer and more econonomic forms of energy as long as it is economically feasable and the one thing that will make it that way is a high enough price for the current fuel that we use. Now if you happen to be the manufacturer of the older fuel and want to eliminate the motivation to move to something else, how would you accomplish that. Gee, I don't know, how about lower the price to the consumer that has the greatest effect?!?!?!?!

The funny thing is that you have no proof to prove what I say is wrong and just about everything that I'm saying is based on observations that YOU have made which would make you as warped as you accuse me of being.

Yes, exactly the opposite of what should be happening this time of year. Now why do you think that is and lets see you back it up with some facts for a change.

Which is why the price of fuel is now magically dropping at a time of year when it traditionally goes up. So far, my theory is holding up just fine.

Which they cannot do when people don't want them due to high cost of operation due to poor mileage. My theory is still holding up quite well and is being totally supported by you.

This is true but public demands are affected by costs and reducing costs effects demand. Once again, my theory is fully supported by you. Thanks Miles.

Bullshit. They need to anticipate demands in the future and make investments accordingly which they simply did not do. As for their spending, the only thing that counts is where the rubber meets the road and so far, they don't have shit.

But the key word is hopefully. Do you really think that the Japanese are only building hybrids and are doing nothing more. If so, I have some beach front property that you may be interested in. The fact is that we have a need for higher mileage vehicles TODAY, not 20 years from now and this is where GM and Ford failed miserably.

I agree with you 100% and what is the best way to eliminate that drive in the industry? How about reduce the price where it counts to make it economically infeasible for the consumer to push for change.

But they help to serve a need that we have today. While it is important to work for the future, what is needed for today is even more important.

Really, perhaps you would care to point out an instance where I did this without it being a responce to being called names first.

LOL, are you serious. Those initial multi-fuled vehicles were a joke. While they could burn propane or gas, they were still all inefficient POS so what was the point of buying one. If we went by your back-asswards logic, we would still be riding horses for transportation and using candles for light since neither cars or electric lights existed until they were invented and perfected.

Where did you demonstrate anything?

LOL, and we were driving much more fuel efficient vehicles at the time.

So this is your proof? An idea in your head that some conspiracy MUST exist because it just makes sense that it does? Always the conspiracy in the liberal mind. Never fails.

ROFL!! The old backasswards argument. Classic and still funny! I have to prove that there is no conspiracy otherwise your paranoid mind must be right?

No TBone. It is only you that draws the conclusion that a conspiracy must exist.

Oil prices were unseasonably high through the winter and spring and have now dropped which is opposite of a normal year. You really need a URL for you to know that?

Except you forgot to factor in the abnormal high oil prices that have now dropped worldwide. So much for your American gas guzzler theory.

No, its not. Gas prices skyrocketed over the past year. They dropped a small amount recently and you declare it to be a conspiracy? Good grief.

Your theory is blown to bits by the simple fact that gas prices are very high right now. What were they only 1 year ago? Oh ya, big conspiracy to lower gas prices. Good grief.

So rush to market a technology that is expensive and returns little gains and is not a sustainable solution? Makes more sense to spend money looking for longer term more viable solutions.

They are not spending anywheres near the $'s the American companies are on other forms of energy. They put all their marbles into Hybrids.

It's a bang for the buck issue. The money invested into hybrid development won't lead to newer, better energy sources. It's only a stop-gap technology at best.

What name calling? Saying your views are liberal is name calling? You've tossed out one name after another, most recently IDIOT.

They have not dropped that much and have been hovering around $50 since Feb. Now if the price has dropped due to the lower price of crude as you suggest, why hasn't diesel dropped with it?

Oil prices will always rise and fall worldwide so an increase or decrease in consumption will effect the worldwide price. With this in mind, a reduction in the rate of consumption in the US alone WILL have an effect on the worldwide price so my gas guzzler theory as you call it is just fine.

LOL, who said anything about a conspiracy besides you????? The fact is that when the price of gas exceeded $2.00 a gallon nationally, the demand for SUV's and large vehicles dropped 30% and that is significant, especially when Ford and GM were downgraded to junk bond status because of it. Now magically, even though the price of oil is still around $50 a barrel, the price of gas is falling below that magical $2.00 a gallon and doing it during a time when prices normally rise to control consumption. In the past

3 weeks, the price of gas has fallen about 20 cents a gallon in my area where it is now $1.95 from $2.15 while diesel has remained around $2.25 and this level of price drop is not supported by the reduction in oil prices, especially when you add in the lack of refining ability verses demand that we are currently dealing with.

A year ago, GM and Ford were not in serious trouble either. There is a limit where people say enough is enough and until gas reached over $2.00 a gallon with threats of it getting over $3.00, that limit was not reached but now it has been and the shift in sales of automobiles proves it.

Not when the need is now and what is it with you that they can't do both. The trick is to make what is available today work for you while you develop the technology for tomorrow and at this, the Great Mistake failed. Lucent technology attempted the idiotic method that you seem to think is the way to go and look at the shape that they are in now because of it.

And your proof of this is...... And who is now making the mega-bucks that they can use to develop that new technology?

I agree but when our ability to refine falls below demand, a stop-gap solution is what is needed NOW. The point Miles, is that while hybrids may only appear to be a stop-gap solution, they are hear now, work well, and can be improved upon in the future. Actually Miles, they are the foundation for the fuel cell technology that you are so hopeful for in the future and are doing their part to decrease consumption now and pave the way for newer technologies tomorrow so your stop-gap only opinion is wrong. Now before you accuse me of some liberal BS, think about this... what is the difference between a current hybrid and a future fuel cell vehicle? Now what does GM and Ford have to compete with this, oh yea, nothing.

Where do you get this conspiracy thing from? Is this a right wing thing, sorta like your liberal accusations???

I never claimed there to ba any conspiracy. I simply said that there was pressure being put on the oil companies to get the price of gas down. You are the one always asking for proof and yet, never delivering any of your own. If you think that I amn wrong, prove it for a change.

Nope. the only one saying conspiracy is you.

You keep tossing your $50 number out. When gas prices were at their highest oil was running close to $58. Now its about $48. Gas prices normally rise because of increased demand for the summer which isn't taking place so far as well as increased oil prices worldwide which isn't the case right now.

Sure as gas goes up people drive less or buy more economic vehicles. Been that way for decades. This discussion is about whether gas companies are controlling that price. You've made a guess saying its true but thats all it is, a guess.

Japan is not doing both. They sunk everything they had into hybrid technology and little else.

If that is the case, then isn't drilling for more oil in Alaska a "stop-gap"? It definately does not lead to newer, better energy sources.

I disagree that hybrid is a stop-gap technology. A great deal has been learned ... mostly by the consumer. For once ... we have a choice and most people are pretty excited about it. There are a few that think it's worthless and probably agree with you that it is "stop-gap".

However, it is a *start* to something better, which is more than punching holes in the ground in Alaska.

Craig C.

I'd take a "stop-gap" of 100-200 years, what's the problem with that?

From what I've read, the hybrids don't get anywhere near the advertised mileage in real life. Add the expense & danger of all those batteries & wiring. Want to be stuck in one when they use the jaws of life on it?

What else is it good for? What did a Caribou ever do for you?

What source fed you that load of crap? 100-200 years of oil under Alaska? Most that I have read ranges from 6 months to 5 years ... and that timeframe is based on pumping/using only 5% of our current demand.

advertised mileage in real life.

So? They are still a step in the right direction. The solution is getting to the point that we are using resources that are renewable.

This is what is called a "scare tactic".

I could use the same reasoning on you. "Get in a wreck with highly flammable gasoline in the tank? Hell, it might blow up!"

Hybrids are just as safe as regular 100% combustion vehicles. If you disagree, then the burden of proof lies on you. Gimme some examples of these horrible accidents that have happened in a hybrid and how much better it would have been in a regular 100% combustion vehicle.

Some things should not be messed with. I happen to feel that we should try to conserve what little of the untouched earth is left. I have been to many parts of Alaska. The most beautiful being Denali ... which WILL be impacted if northern Alaska is drilled. Why drill it, damage the ecosystem, risk extinction of some wildlife when all we have to do is pursue a renewable source of energy? Progress is being made DESPITE our fearless leader's attempts to keep us hooked on oil.

Exist. What did a Caribou ever do *to* you?

Craig C.

If you really think that there is that much oil under Alaska, you have been deceived.

That is because they are usually not driven as expected and with the afressive way most people drive anymore, I'm not sure that they can be during rush hour.

How is that any different than a conventional automobile? I would think that a tank full of gasoline would be just as dangerous.

This is very sad and yet, explains a lot!

Yes, it is a stop-gap measure but not for cars. Oil is used for far more than just gasoline. Alaskan oil is not sweet crude.

IOW, it is kinda worthless.