I apologize if this subject was discussed here before. But my ISP does not keep messages for too long.
I just picked up my new Explorer. I checked the oil requirements and it says 5W20. It's first time I've seen such light oil in the car. On the next oil change I want to put synthetic in. What viscosity should I use?
The reason is that I lease this car and I put only about 6000 miles a year, so I just want to reduce the number of oil changes without killing the engine. Basically I want to change the oil once and forget about it till the lease is over.
Yes, 5-20W is correct, 20W has been reformulated industry wide. I think it is not correct for the 4.0 liter Explorer V6, unless that has now changed as well.
Incidentally, are you leasing the vehicle based on an allowable for 6,000 miles annually? If you are lease allows 12,000 miles a year and you are driving only 6,000, you are seriously ripping yourself off.
The 5W20 specified is a "semi-synthetic". Depending on your climate, you could fly with Mobil1 or similar in a 5W30 but I wont recommend extended service intervals. 3months OR 3000 miles - whichever comes first. If you only drive 6000 miles per year you might examine your driving requirements.... renting might be much cheaper than leasing.
While todays motors are delivering a longer lifespan than in the past, they are not very robust.... they are pretty well purpose built and require a fairly religious maintenance schedule...... if for no other reason than the cost of repairs. When these "new" motors fail, it is usually catastrophically. Parts and materials cost is generally more than twice what old technology motors cost. Body styling and various features, once deemed luxuries but now thought of as standard equipment, have raised service times to new levels. Before we condemn the manufacturers, we need to realize that styling changes and additional features are, in the end, driven by consumer demand......
While I can't see scrimping on services with a new vehicle creating much in the way of problems over a 3 or even 4 year lease, I can see where it would open up the need to misrepresent oneself come time turn the car in. Naturally, while it is a mortal sin for a mechanic to misrepresent himself, it is perfectly normal and morally acceptable for "civilians" to do so.....
SOAPBOX mode =
BTW..... if you had used Boris Badinoff I'd ask you to say "Hi" to Natasha...
Jim, your soap box comments are very much appropriate and very much appreciated.
I think we do our best when we live honest and principled lives, even if it costs us more or means more work. It doesn't matter if you are a mechanic or a customer or anyone else. It should always be the first goal. I am glad you brought it up.
It's my 3-rd lease. They don't care how often you change oil. They simply auction the car at the lease end and nobody owes anyone anything. There is no need to present any maintanance records. But anyway, I would like to keep the engine in good condition, despite that I am only going to use it for 3 years. Changing oil is not a big deal. Takes only few minutes. I just thought that I can use synthetic, as they say it's good for
Can't answer the oil question - maybe Jim Warman, Ed White or someone else can, except to say that I would not count on any claims about synthetic and instead change my oil at the manufacturer suggested intervals, if not earlier. Contaminants get into the oil, and these need to be removed - whether synthetic or not.
Just a point on leasing - if you are given 31,500 miles over three years, that means the depreciation part of the lease payment (the biggest part) is based on that number. If you use only 18,000 miles over that period and return the vehicle instead of buying it, you've bought much more of the vehicle than you used. Leasing already is the most expensive way to acquire a vehicle, your approach is making an expensive deal far worse - unless, of course you don't mind giving away some of your money. Based on your driving habits, leasing is a very bad deal for you. If you want to drive a new vehicle every few years, you'd be better off always buying it and selling it.
The redhead steps up to the plate and knocks the mud off his cleats........... gazing to the infield, he sees Boris wind up and let fly a knuckleball....... the redhead really doesn't want to swing at this one....
For my answer, I'm going to disregard the exhuberant claims of one synthetic oil supplier and we'll look at what mainstream suppliers have to say..... I should also mention that we will talk mostly about POA synthetics rather than the misnamed synthetics created through "hydro-cracking".
Mobil1 doesn't recommend going past the manufacturers recommended maximum interval. Esso Petroleum Canada has SuperFlo synthetic..... they state that you should follow manufacturers recommendations. I believe that Castrols synthetic is conventional base stocks that have been hydro-cracked. Kendall markets two synthetics.... I can't see whether they are POAs or pretenders - their recommended interval mimics manufacturers recommendations. Texaco doesn't state whether theirs is POA or not.... there are no service intervals mentioned in their product benefits. Chevron also doesn't state that theirs is or isn't though the blurb reads like it is a POA..... again, no promise of extended intervals........
I think it safe to say we can see where this is going. There is one product that is sold through a network of private dealers (much like Avon or Amway) that does promise all manner of fantastic benefits. I have heard that this same company, playing tit for tat with Castrol, is manufacturing some of their products with hydrocracked conventional base stocks..... not yet verified but well noted.
With so few manufacturers promising anything in the way of extended service intervals, I would question those that are promising fantastic things.......
Anecdotal references to successful use of extended oil change intervals abound. Seeing as the 4.6 in my SuperCrew would cost about $5,000 or $6,000 in the coin of our realm, I'm a little reluctant to become a Guinea pig.... especially when the urging is coming from folks with no documentation and whom I know nothing about.
Ann Landers once said "If something sounds too good to be true...... it probably is...".
Jim, consider me a stupid consumer who watched too many commercials. I didn't invent this 25,000 mile oil change interval. Someone put it into my head. And I don't remember exactly who. And I didn't read the small print. That's why they make some prints big and some small. 25,000 miles was obviously big print, so I remember it.
You are probably speaking of AMSoil synthetic products, and they have upped their testimonials to 30,000 miles between oil changes (its not technically a recommendation, just a "suggestion" based on customer and company experience). I purchase their oil by the drum, but I change it every 2,500 miles regardless of their claims. I have sent for oil analysis through two different labs several times over a period of 2 years and have compared results between AMSoil and Mobil 1 on my car, wife's and brother's, and find less metallic wear particles, better additive residual numbers, and fewer oil-breakdown indicators using the AMSoil product. I start getting numbers I'm not comfortable with between 8 & 10k (this was brother's car, would never do this with my own, he doesn't feel oil changes are important - good test subject), and chose 2,500 as an extremely conservative interval (some people are just clean-oil nuts). I don't think you should attempt to use any oil product for 30K, 25K, or even 10K without changing it. Jim's right; using synthetics has no bearing on oil change intervals.
"Q: AMSOIL will be using a different formula for its XL-7500 Motor Oils. Why did AMSOIL change the formula?
A: Our XL-7500 oils are the oils of choice in the retail oil change market, and primarily because of warranty concerns the customers in this market require API-certified oils. In order to obtain API SL/ILSAC GF-3 certification and still remain cost-competitive with the other oils sold at retail oil change outlets, we had to change to Group III basestocks. To obtain API certification with our top tier basestocks would have priced our Dealers out of the market.
Q: Are Group III basestocks synthetic?
A: Yes, they are synthetic. Group III base oils are highly processed oils and were classified as synthetic in 1999.That year, the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus ruled in a complaint by Mobil Oil Corp. against Castrol North America Inc. Castrol claimed its product, Syntec, was a synthetic oil even though it had used Group III base oils since
1997. The ruling by NAD said Castrol presented evidence that constitutes a reasonable basis for the claim that Syntec, a Group III based formulation, is synthetic motor oil."
They are claiming that the XL-7500 is a synthetic for exactly the same reason that Castrol calims Syntec is a synthetic. I find this ironic since they have been preaching the gospel of "fully syntehetic" motor oil for years. Since they think Group III base stock is good enough, why should I waste my money buying stuff that I consider to be falsely labeled as synthetic, when other Group III oils are available for a fraction of the cost from reputable manufacturers?
Who is "they?" In my opinion it is a BS claim. On the other hand I think changing oil evey 3,000 miles (which I do) is probably too conservative if you are trying to make the best investement of your time and money. I have yet to have an oil related engine failure, but then neither has my Sister who only changes her oil when the little red flag pops up on her Honda's odometer (about 7500 miles). Even then she only changes it the next time I'll do it for free. On previous cars, she did not change it as regularly since there was no flag to remind her and still all her cars made it to the junk yard with engines that ran just fine.
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