So, if ford went to all the trouble to keep the passenger compartment
intact for a severe crippling crash (which is good, five stars) they cannot make
the front bumper more resistant to a 5 MPH crash?
So Tom, if your wife ran into something in the mall parking lot
at 5 MPH and you had a $5900 bill, you would not be upset?
And i wonder what the insurance companies are going to rate long term
on this. What do you think they have more claims on, totals or smaller
low speed fender benders?
Let me quote Ford PR:
The all-new 2004 Ford F-150 creates a bold first
impression as it extends Ford's tradition as America's
Tough Truck leader
I think a tough truck ought to not cost $5912 to fix in a front end 5 MPH
collision. It may be a tough truck, with a weenie front bumper.
May not so tough cars would fair better.
Bob, Maybe you should actually check out the stories you post here, the
$5,912 was a total for all of the tests. Considering it's one of the safest
trucks at 40 mph, I'll get over the 5 mph issues. My ass is way more
important than my wallet.
5 MPH CRASH TEST RESULTS, FORD F-150 PICKUP TRUCK AND FREESTAR MINIVAN
4 tests Average
per test Bumper
2004 Ford F-150 $979 $1,606 $1,286 $2,041 $5,912 $1,478 POOR
2001 Ford F-150 $1,353 $1,127 $1,279 $1,711 $5,470 $1,368 POOR
2004 Ford Freestar $191 $513 $1,239 $869 $2,812 $703 MARGINAL
1999 Ford Windstar $389 $0 $355 $1,349 $2,093 $523 ACCEPTABLE
That's funny, just 8 days later, the same group said this about the F150
(and the minivan)
December 19, 2003
Frontal offset crash test results for
a.. All pickup trucks
b.. All passenger vans
tested by the Institute
HIGH-SPEED CRASH TEST RESULTS:
NEW FORD PICKUP & MINIVAN ARE 'BEST PICKS,'
F-150 PICKUP SHOWS DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT
ARLINGTON, VA -- The redesigned Ford F-150 pickup truck and Ford Freestar
minivan each earned the highest overall rating in a recent series of 40 mph
frontal crash tests conducted by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.
Both vehicles, which are 2004 models, improved compared with their
predecessors. The previous F-150 model was rated poor, while the redesigned
2004 model F-150 earned a good rating and the added designation of "best
pick." Ford's previous minivan, the Windstar, was rated acceptable, while
the new Freestar earned a rating of good and also is a "best pick."
Vehicle ratings reflect performance in 40 mph frontal offset crash tests
into a deformable barrier. Based on the results, the Institute evaluates the
crashworthiness of passenger vehicles, assigning each vehicle a rating from
good overall to poor. If a vehicle earns a good rating, it means that in a
real-world crash of similar severity a belted driver would be likely to walk
away with minor injuries. A "best pick" designation means the vehicle
performed well across the board in the 40 mph crash test.
"The good crash test results of the F-150 pickup and the Freestar minivan
mean that Ford has the top-rated full-size pickup truck and one of the two
top-rated minivans in the Institute's frontal crashworthiness evaluations,"
says Institute president Brian O'Neill.
Intrusion measures are much lower for new F-150: "The F-150 went from the
worst performing large pickup we've tested to the best performing large
pickup," O'Neill says. "When we tested the old F-150, there was massive coll
apse of the occupant compartment, and as a result high injury forces were
recorded on the driver dummy. In contrast, the compartment of the new F-150
held up extremely well in the offset test, the dummy's movement was well
controlled, and all injury measures were low."
No one said it was not safe or improved over the "Heritage" models
of F150. And i commend Ford on its 5 start rating in this category.
But i chastise them for not spending a few more dollars to make
the front bumper more robust. The main problem is lack of a federal
standard like cars.
And from the detnews web post:
"Ford could have used this opportunity to design better bumpers,"
said Adrian Lund, a vice president of the Arlington, Virginia-based
group, in a statement. "A bumper should be tough enough to
prevent major damage in a minor collision at a fast walking speed."
They may have gave it a great 40 MPH crash rating, but the insurance group gave
it a POOR rating for low speed FRONT crash test. And it had nothing
to do with occupant safety, it was just about how much it cost to fix it.
Ford had the opportunity to get a grand slam with the New F150.
In many respects they did. They just missed a little on the front
The only problem Bob was that your post was biased. You indicated the repair
cost was $5900, which isn't true and you neglected anything positive. Most
parking lot mishaps are less then 5 mph. Hell, a shopping cart into your
rear quarter could cost a lot more than $1500.
You don't understand the purpose of the crash test and the design of the
vehicle. It boils down to let the vehicle destroy itself while absorbing the
forces of a crash while at the same time keeping the passenger compartment
(and the passengers) intact. It's about minimizing injury to occupants.
Damage to the vehicle is unimportant.
Every day is a good day- it's just that some are better than others.
The low-speed tests are to find how much damage is caused by such things
as bumping into another car in a parking lot, bumping into a wall or pole,
etc.. These are not crashes, but very-low speed impacts. I do not believe
trucks have ANY standard to meet for bumpers, unlike cars. Even there, the
standard was reduced from 5 mph to 2.5 mph a number of years ago. I also
think it went from no damage at all (remember the bumpers with the shock
absorbers behind them?) to no STRUCTURAL damage to the vehicle. Even
'good' rated cars often require the bumper itself be replaced. It may look
perfect on the outside, but the foam behind it is often crushed. In the
case of minivans/trucks (remember, SUV's and minivans are classified as
trucks), the high costs usually come from damage to the rear
When the 5 mph standard was in effect, Consumers Union (Consumer Reports
magazine) stopped their bumper tests because there was little to no
damage. When the standard was reduced, they restarted the testing.
If you wonder how this affects you, just look at your insurance bill.
Take a close look at the collision/comprehensive part. High repair costs
for such minor accidents will affect this.
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
The proposal that light trucks (defacto passenger cars today) should meet
the same low-speed crash standards as passenger cars has been fought by the
industry for years, with the support of their tagalong congresspersons. The
public has been told that requireing that light trucks meet the same
colision standards as passenger cars is impossible or wimpy or some form of
communism. For some reason, people bought this. Now the stadards for
passenger cars have been reduced. Light trucks used for passenger car
purposes have no standards. Minivans are the same as light trucks.
So now, any tiny little impact costs hundreds, if not thousands to repair.
But, people don't care. They just come up with the deductable (applied to
credit, like everything else) and then bitch vaguely about rising insurance
rates caused by various (hatefully refered to) ethnic groups committing
undefined fraud in places not near them. *THEY* did this to *US*.
God help you if you are on the business end of my 1973 Montego's huge 15 MPH
bumper. I'll go through your cheap-ass overpriced SUV like a knife through
I can't speak for all SUVs, but I had some guy in a Tempo bounce off the back of
my Expedition. Zero damage for me. Considerably less than zero damage for him. I
suspect if you amined your Montego at my rear bumper, we both be unhappy. I'd
guess your grill would really scratch up the chrome on my rear bumper as it
collasped into your radiator and your massive bumper would be similarly
scratched up as you ruined by trailer hitch.
7) Has NHTSA conducted evaluations of the bumper standard? If so, what were the
From http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/studies/Bumper/Index.html :
Yes. NHTSA conducted an evaluation of the bumper standard in 1981. The
evaluation determined the net benefits (the change in costs) to the consumer
attributable to each successive standard (applicable through MY 1980) in
relation to unregulated bumper systems in MY 1972 and prior years. The
evaluation findings were that bumper systems complying with the standard
requirements for model years 1979 and 1980 (most, if not all, bumpers were built
to the 1980 "no damage" standard in 1979) tended to show net consumer losses -
based on a 10-year car life - when compared to unregulated bumper systems. The
costs of the 1979/1980 systems were between $150 and $200 higher than the
unregulated bumpers (1972 and earlier model years).
In 1987, the agency conducted another evaluation of the bumper standard. The
evaluation concluded that: (1) the costs to consumers did not change as a result
of the modification of the bumper standard from 5 to 2.5 mph; (2) the net
effect, over a car's 10 year life, is a small increase in repair costs, which is
offset by a reduction in the cost of the bumpers; and (3) the change in the
bumper standard did not compromise the protection of safety-related parts.
I had an old 1975 Volvo 164E with these heavy metal bumpers. It absolutely
creamed a 1980's Ford and suffered little to no damage. My 1984 Buick hit
a little Mazda once in the rear end and not a scuff on it. The rear end of
the microbox was crushed in.
Now, it's all plastic and unibody and honestly, the cars are not any
safer except in very high-speed crashes, where you'd think destructable
at 5pmh bumpers would be counter to the design.
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