Tire Pressure

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Re: Re: Tire Pressure Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Sun, Oct 2, 2005, 2:08am (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@msn.com (351CJ)
A big Ford truck. Bigger than the F150-250-350. Eric
Eric, The cabs inside and out and front end sheet metal and grill on and the engines and transmissions in the F-450 and F-550 are the same as the F-250/F-350. The only differences are with the massively larger frame, springs, brakes, wheels/tires & axels, equaling much higher weight carry and towing weight limits, in a truck that is essentially the same size as its lighter duty Superduty siblings. Now the F-650/F-750, now those are a much Bigger Ford truck than the F150-250-350-450-550. <<<<<<<<<<<<<< I just gave him a simlple answer. Yours is much more than I needed to know ;-))) Eric
Well frankly your answer was not in fact simpler, it was simply inaccurate... Since you were attempting to answer someone's question, seems you did indeed need to know...<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Actually I don't need to know at all since you seem to be the know it all and I don't give a damm one way or the other.
Eric
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If you truly don't give a damn, do everyone a favor, and stop feeding people your misinformed bullshit when they ask a simple question...
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Re: Re: Tire Pressure Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Mon, Oct 3, 2005, 5:21am (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@msn.com (351CJ)
wrote in message
Actually I don't need to know at all since you seem to be the know it all and I don't give a damm one way or the other. Eric
If you truly don't give a damn, do everyone a favor, and stop feeding people your misinformed bullshit when they ask a simple question...<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Testy aren't you? You seem to be one of those who just has to try to impress everyone with how much they know. Remind me never to ask you the time, you'll most likely explain how to build a watch.
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It is an F-350 Superduty on steroids... Same sized truck body with massively larger frame springs brakes & axels...
https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/2005fleetshowroom/2005-f450.asp http://www.mlsinc.com/database/detail.asp?recordid 0135994&industry=1 http://www.mlsinc.com/database/detail.asp?recordid 0135993&industry=1 http://autotech-engineering.com/truck / http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/brandpages/ford/131_0410_new/index1.html http://trucks.about.com/od/2005pickuptrucks/a/05_fseries_sd.htm http://www.ford-trucks.com/specs/2006/2006_ford_f450_f550_super_duty.html
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AH, a sane man. The plate matches the tire. No shit! Listen to this man. Ford says 30 and the tire is 44? Are you all crazy?
Brad

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I just checked the sidewall info on the Bridgestone Potenza G009 215x60x15 tires on my 99 Taurus.
Plain as day it says _never exceed 44 psi_. The Ford sticker on the doorjam says reccomended pressure is 32psi measured cold. I run with 35psi because the 215x60 is a plus size and I prefer a slightly firmer ride.
Eric
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Sometimes they match, sometimes they don't. The tires that came on my 2003 Expedition had a maximum pressure of over 50. The recommended pressure is 35. The maximum pressure listed on the sidewall is a maximum, not the correct pressue for any particualr application. Sometime (particularly with heavy trucks) the recommended pressure and the max pressure for the tires are the same.
Ed
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On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 06:25:57 GMT, "BradandBrooks"

Heavier trucks commonly match because the truck frequently carries the MAXIMUM load for the tire whereas, an automobile or light truck almost never caries the MAXIMUM load for the tire. Therefore, trucks use MAXIMUM inflation while cars and light trucks almost always specify a pressure less than MAXIMUM. If cars and light trucks were equipped with tires that required MAXIMUM inflation pressure to accommodate the load on them, they would be very small tires indeed. Don't be so stubborn. Go learn a little before you jump into the giving out advice that may get someone hurt or killed. Over inflated tires frequently do not handle well, ride well, wear well or, provide the best traction on wet roads. They can also become damaged easily under some conditions because they are not compliant enough to absorb physical impacts as they should. Excessive over inflation can be every bit as bad as under inflation.
Lugnut

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Tires do not increase 14psi in hot weather, so run 30 in a 44. Holy, this news group is insane. And you people offer advice? On a 44psi tire, I would run 41 to 42 psi year round. 2 to 3 psi increase is about what you can expect in hot weather. Maybe 5 max if it is really hot.
Brad

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Brad,
You need to go read the refernces I provided in another reply. You are wrong on this. No tire or vehicle manufactuer will agree with your position.
In my previous post, I quoted recommendations from all the major US tire manufacturer's. The following satatement is from the owners guide for my 2003 Expedition:
"You should carefully observe the recommended tire inflation pressure found on the safety compliance certification label attached to the left front door latch post pillar (a label may also be found on the fuel cap filler door). Failure to follow tire pressure recommendations can adversely affect the way your vehicle handles. Do not exceed the Ford Motor Company recommended pressure even if it is less than the maximum pressure allowed for the tire."
Notice that it says "Do not exceed the Ford Motor Company recommended pressure even if it is less than the maximum pressure allowed for the tire."
The following information came from the Owner's Guide for a 2004 Taurus (https://web.msslib.dealerconnection.com/RightSite/getcontent/myfile.pdf?DMW_OBJECTID 000c58803d294f }
". Inflation pressure: A measure of the amount of air in a tire. . Standard load: A class of P-metric or Metric tires designed to carry a maximum load at 35 psi [37 psi (2.5 bar) for Metric tires]. Increasing the inflation pressure beyond this pressure will not increase the tires load carrying capability. . Extra load: A class of P-metric or Metric tires designed to carry a heavier maximum load at 41 psi [43 psi (2.9 bar) for Metric tires]. Increasing the inflation pressure beyond this pressure will not increase the tires load carrying capability. ..... 13. Maximum Permissible Inflation Pressure: Tire manufactures maximum permissible pressure and/or the pressure at which the maximum load can be carried by the tire. This pressure is normally higher than the manufacturer's recommended cold inflation pressure which can be found on either the tire label or certification label which is located on the structure by the trailing edge of the driver's door or the edge of the driver's door. The cold inflation pressure should never be set lower than the recommended pressure on the vehicle label.
The net is, the tire manufacturer's and the vehicle manufacturer's are unanimous - as long as you are using tires of the size and type that came on the car, follow the VEHICLE manufacturer's inflation pressure recommendations.
Ed
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Re: Re: Tire Pressure Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Sat, Oct 1, 2005, 1:40am (EDT+4) From: snipped-for-privacy@mudspring.com (C.E.White)
Tires do not increase 14psi in hot weather, so run 30 in a 44. Holy, this news group is insane. And you people offer advice? On a 44psi tire, I would run 41 to 42 psi year round. 2 to 3 psi increase is about what you can expect in hot weather. Maybe 5 max if it is really hot.
Brad, You need to go read the refernces I provided in another reply. You are wrong on this. No tire or vehicle manufactuer will agree with your position.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Safe bet that BradandBrooks do come come back to admit their errors.
Eric
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What does the sticker inside your vehicle's door suggest?
My 2005 Ford Escape has a label inside the door that suggests 35psi, with stock tires that are rated at 44psi max.
My 2003 Honda Civic has a label inside the door that suggests 30psi, with stock tires that are rated at 44psi max.
--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8,-122.5
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Tire Pressure Group: alt.autos.ford Date: Wed, Sep 28, 2005, 3:11pm From: snipped-for-privacy@guy.org (TireGuy) I just put a new set of Michelin Harmonies on my 2004 Taurus. The tires have a max PSI of 44 listed on the sidewall. Ford recommends a max PSI of 30 for tires on this car. How much pressure should I use in practice? Car typically doesn't haul any heavy loads. TIA <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Remember that the PSI should be taken when the tire is cold. A hot tire will show 2-4 lbs more pressure. Personally I think you should set the cold pressure to 32lbs if you want a slightly firmer ride.
Eric
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On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:11:29 -0400, "Tire Guy"

Unless you have some good reason based on vehicle load, speed, tire wear change in tire size or load rating, go by the recommendations on the decal affixed to the vehicle or found in the owners manual. Overinflation will gain you nothing but an ill handling car that ride rough and irritates the hell out of you while rattling your teeth loose and may ultimately have other consequences. Enjoy your Michelins. They are great tires.
Lugnut
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You touched a sore point with me. For years I have been a Michelin drone. Whenever I needed replacement tires, I always bought Michelins. Lately I begun to think maybe I should look elsewhere. I have been less that thrilled with the last few Michelin tires (or BFGoodrich tires - a Michelin subsidiary) that I have purchased.
My 2003 Expedition came with Continental tires. They were OK for the first 50,000 miles, but began to get noisy, so I replaced them at around 55,000 miles with Michelin Cross-Terrains. I now wish I had the Continentals back (at least the Continentals with less than 50k miles). The Michelins ride OK and stay balanced, but they are noisy as heck - much noisier than the noisy Continentals I replaced and seem to have worse wet traction (just a feeling, no numbers to back it up).
My 2004 Thunderbird came with Michelins from Ford and the tires suck. I cannot keep them balanced and they appear to me to be gripless.
I also have a 2003 Saturn Vue with Bridgestone tires. These tires are much better than my other tires. Even at 37,000 miles they aren't noisy and I have only had to have them balanced once (they seem to stay balanced). To bad they are from Bridgestone / Firestone.
I do have an F150 with 8 year old Michelin LTX tires and those tires seem to be just fine (well except for the one I just replaced because I put a spike through the tread).
The last set of new BF Goodrich tires I had on an older Expedition (now long gone) were horrible.
I also bought a set of Michelin Pilot Sports for a Mustang GT I no longer own - they were not horrible, but at best they were no better than the Goodyear's that came on the car and they were certainly more expensive.
And finally, for those that can stand Consumer Reports, Michelins have not exactly shined in CR's recent tire comparisons. For instance the Cross Terrains like the ones I now have on my Expedition were rated 19 out of 22 in a November 2004 CR test (the Continentals that came on the vehicle were rated 20...). On the other hand Tire Rack Customers rank the Cross Terrains pretty well (5 out of 62), but then the people doing the ranking might be like me - Michelin drones.
So I guess the question is - Are Michelin still my best non-brainer option for tires, or should I look elsewhere? And if I look elsewhere for my next tire purchase (probably new tires for the Thunderbird), where should I look? I will not buy Firestone tires (and because of guilt by association - no Bridgestones either) no matter what rating may say (burn me once, shame on you, burn me three or four times, damn I must be stupid).
Ed
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C. E. White wrote:

I've been driving Goodyears for a lot of years now and haven't been disappointed once. I'm impressed by the TripleTreds on my '91 Grand Marquis.
--
If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
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[Contis] were OK for the first 50,000 miles, but began to get noisy
Somewhere around 40 or 50 thousand I start to wonder about the number of potholes and pieces of road debris my tires have slammed through, anyway. (Back when I did some off-roading I worried even earlier, though freeways might be worse since the obstacles have squarer edges and you're hitting them much harder.) This limits my desire to pay extra for a tire that promises extreme life in a treadwear sense.
I wonder if any testing agency has published "autopsy reports" on tires at various stages of a real-time or accelerated wear cycle that includes such forms of violence. It'd be interesting to see either cross sections or x-rays that show what is going on inside your tires as they get experienced.
--Joe
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I have had nothing but Michelin for many years. My most recent set now have about 60,000 miles and still have decent tread left. They have also been very good in rain. We dont get much snow and ice here in Texas, so I can't speak to their performance under those conditions.
I have never had a complaint about the tires themselves. Never any out of round or balance problems.
Still, things can change. There are some very good Japanese tires now, and if I decided to change, I would review them carefully to be sure that I am still getting the quality and performance I want.
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Sounds like a good plan. But what do you use for your source of information? I really don't trust Consumer Reports (I clearly have different agenda than CR when it comes to most things, particularly automitive related items). The Tire Rack ratings are interesting, but it seems to me that the ratings are little more than personal opinion based on a limited frame of reference (how many people actually have driven more than a couple of the tires in any category)?
One more thought comes to mind. Maybe Michelin tires are as good as they ever were and it is the roads that are crap. It seems like the roads around here are much worse than even 5 years ago.
Ed
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I have researched tires on a lot of different sites, including the Tire Rack.
Like you, CR doesn't assure me with its credibility.
I talk to the people at Discount Tires and ask their opinions, but don't take their recommendations as gospel. Have a local tire dealer here whom I know personally, and usually get good feedback from him. He hears all the complaints, comebacks, etc.
If I had to make the decision tomorrow, I would go straight back to Michelin, without hesitation. (And hope I am not sorry later.)
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