Chevy Tracker lights

| > Apparently they do, showers here today (law requires lights) and a trip | out | > this morning revealed nearly all of the GM's on the road without tail | lights | > lit when most other non-GM cars did turn their lights on (since they're | used to | > doing it themselves, is my guess). There is no such thing as "auto" | > lights...only ambient light control (which can't apply at the applicable | times | > when the law requires lights...only when it's "dark" Hardly the only | > appropriate time lights are required). But we've been through this | before. | > Some day you GM lemmings will realize that since it's a frequent topic | brought | > up here (not by me), then it isn't as benign of an issue and you're in | denial | > (but denial that is common human nature). | | | You should know that some GM's have the headlights turn on whenever the | windshield wipers are activated, and you should also know that on some GMs | you can adjust the amount of lighting that the sensor needs before it turns | on/off. | |

Some do have those, most models don't (obviously, or their lights would have been lit the other morning and they mostly weren't). My 2003 Malibu lights did not come on with the wipers and it didn't have a ambient sensitivity adjustment either. So your statement is only partly true. I would imagine that the wiper/lighting interconnect is available mostly on the most current year modes, some exceptions to that though, I'm sure. Bonneville, LeSabre, Cadies, etc. have had those a few years. Heck, my grandfathers 1960's vintage Cadillacs had a sensitivity control (although he kept the auto light function turned off...didn't like it either).

The wiper/lighting interconnect is probably not a bad idea. This is especially true for the general GM owner since a fair number of GM owners are trained (dumbed down) to forget all about turning on the lights themselves, so they need the idiot proofing the most. Present company excluded, naturally! :-) Not that their aren't general idiots out there that would need them regardless...most people don't normally

I agree.

It's not partly true if some models have the adjustable sensor and the wiper/lighting connection as I stated earlier. I drive an 01 LeSabre on a regular basis that has the wiper/lighting connection and adjustable sensor (I'm not quite sure exactly what position the slider is in with how much lighting it needs). I'm not sure yet about an 04 Sierra that I also drive, I think that it's like in your Malibu.

sensitivity

I agree with the wiper/light part, just the other day we had a ton of rain and it was dark and overcast the entire day. But looking at cars coming from the other direction there were quite a few of them that forgot to turn on any lights. Such is driving in Milwaukee though. We had fog here too the next day after the rain, and most cars only had their parking lights on. I remember going to school a few times last year and as I was driving over the Hoen it got incredibly foggy, most cars didn't have their headlights on. We had a decent amount of snow too one time and I'd say less then half the cars on the road had their head lights on. On TV and the radio they were telling people to turn on their headlights too if they were driving or going to drive.

In GM's defense here, alot of car makers have some pretty complicated stuff.

*cough* BMW's I-Drive does I've heard *cough* I remember reading that the light sensor only cost something like $20 at an AC/Declo store for an adjustable one and a set one was $17 or something like that. Cars will just get more complicated as people demand more features. Most luxury cars have rain sensing wipers. One day if the sensor fails I'll bet that some people won't know how to turn on the wipers by hand. I think that whenever people buy a new car they should sit down and read the damned manual to understand how certain things work.

"Phillip Schmid" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@uni-berlin.de... | | [SNIP] | | One day if the sensor fails I'll bet that some people won't | know how to turn on the wipers by hand.| I think that whenever | people buy a car they they should sit down and read | the damned manual how certain things work. |

Why read the manual (if everything works "automagically" for you)? What is there to know? ;-) Along those lines there are quite a few "driver accounts" registered as "safety complaints" at the NHTSA on exactly the situation you describe...people finding themselves in situations where they needed manual control of something that is normally "automagiacally" controlled and found they didn't know how. AND trying to fumble around while driving is not a good thing! One "account" was a couple on a trip in a LeSabre that were almost rear-ended by a semi on a foggy interstate...the husband's account was that the wife was driving and neither realised that that their tail lights weren't on until shortly after the near rear-end collision while pondering why the semi didn't see them. After the realization hit them they didn't know how to turn the lights on manually if they even could, OR if they could...how to! My guess is that even if a owner read the manual thoroughly, the fact that they would likely never use the light switch (which routine/habit is the best training there is), would probably forget anyway if ever confronted with the situation. A driver that drives a car where using the switch is a matter of habit/routine in order to use the car won't have that problem.

BTW: question. On your LeSabre, do you know how to program the tail/marker/dash lights so they aren't on in the daytime. My neighbor would live to know how to turn them off if you can help. He's read the manual, but apparently can't understand the instructions. Must be written by the same people that write VCR manuals! :-)

I'd say that he probably has the headlights turned on. But what I would do is have the car turned on and in park and slide the "Twilight" slider all the way down to "Off" and see if the lights are still on. If they are he has the headlights on. Then he could turn them off and set the "Twilight" slider all the way back up to "MAX". I'd also make sure that the sensor isn't covered up too. I can't blame him though about the manual, it's not written very clearly.

I think _normally_ the car has to be in gear for the auto lights to function and turn on the normal lights/tails/markers/dash. His lights pop on as soon as the car is started (day or night)..._before_ putting in gear. Hmmm...

The interesting thing also is that, during the day, the lights go off immediately when he kills the engine. At night, they delay-off. So they go off in a different way depending on if it's daylight out or not. So the ambient light sensor must be doing something. He seems to think that there is a setting somewhere in the menu programming interface somewhere. At this point I think he and his wife (and daughter has had a crack at the problem as well) have given up.

"James C. Reeves" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

Hmm, the light sensor is doing something. You're right about it being in gear before the sentinel kicks in...I think...I'll just put in part of the manual here

"Twilight Sentinel turns your lamps on and off by sensing how dark it is outside. To operate it, leave the lamp switch off. If you move the control all the way to MAX, your headlamps will remain on for about three minutes after you turn off your engine. As you move the control toward OFF, the headlamps will turn off more quickly when you move your key from RUN. You can change this delay time from only a few seconds to three minutes. The exterior lamps can be completely shut off while the vehicle is in PARK (P) by sliding the Twilight Sentinel control all the way toward OFF, and releasing it. To turn the exterior lamps back on, slide the control all the way toward OFF again, and release it; or, shift out of PARK (P)."

"Daytime Running Lamps (DRL) can make it easier for others to see the front of your vehicle during the day. DRL can be helpful in many different driving conditions, but they can be especially helpful in the short periods after dawn and before sunset. Fully functional daytime running lights are required on all vehicles first sold in Canada. A light sensor on top of the instrument panel monitors the exterior light level for the operation of DRL and Twilight Sentinel, so be sure it isn't covered. The DRL system will make your high-beam headlamps turn on at reduced brightness in daylight when the following conditions are met: The ignition is on, the headlamp switch is off and the transaxle is not in PARK (P) When the DRL are on, only your high-beam headlamps will be on. The parking lamps, taillamps, sidemarker and other lamps won't be on. When it is dark enough outside, your low-beam headlamps will come on. The other lamps that turn on with your headlamps will also turn on. When it is bright enough outside, the regular lamps will go off, and your high-beam headlamps change to the reduced brightness of DRL. To turn off all exterior lighting at night when you are parked, turn off the headlamps and move the Twilight Sentinel control all the way toward OFF. The exterior lamps will turn back on automatically when you move the transaxle out of PARK (P). As with any vehicle, you should turn on the regular headlamp system when you need it."

See how confusing they can get? Another thing he could try is manually turning on the parking lights and seeing if the headlights go off. What year is his?

His is a 2002 model. I think the manual is describing the operation of the "default" setup which I think can be changed through the menu interface somehow. His high-beam DRLs only illuminate for a second or two at ignition and then the headlamps (and tail/marker/dask) switch on day or night.

From the excerpt you provided it sounds like the "Twilight Sentinel" slider control adjusts the length of the delay-off feature, NOT the ambient sensor sensitivity (does it sound like that to you too?). Although the very 1st sentence in the paragraph seems to imply that it does have something to do with the ambient light sensor sensitivity, yet the entire rest of the paragraph discusses the delay off after shutting the car down...(a separate function) NOT the ambient light sensor sensitivity . Maybe it does both?

Well, now I see why he can't figure it out!! Seems like a way "over-engineered" system to me....even GM can't explain how it works! :-) In reading this, I can't fathom how I ever managed to drive without a single "at-fault" accident for nearly 35 years without such systems!! ;-) Maybe a light switch with simply a "on" and a "off" kept the distraction level down! :-)

I agree with the entire thing. It's a nice thing to have but people rely on it all the time. There's also a special way to get the lights to turn off if you're parked and waiting for someone too :P I think that there should be a switch for if the owner wants the car to use the auto lights or not. It's better then nothing for some people though.

When I was up in northern Wisconsin a couple weeks ago you'd be surprised how many older style GM trucks have just their DRLs on. I have a Grand Prix that I let my mum drive while her Blazer was being worked on and she could not figure out how to get the headlights turned on so she ended up driving with the parking lights and fog lights on. That thing has an electrochromatic inside rear view mirror...I can't really see the point to that since the back windows are factory tinted, it only darkens whenever someone opens a door and the dome light turns on.

Most of the stuff that I've figured out about gadgets on cars is from sitting down in the car for awhile before I first drive it and playing with everything. Hey..that's an idea. GM could have the dealerships teach the customers how certain things worked. I remember quite a few years ago my mom and dad got a new car and my mom couldn't figure out how to get the wipers going since they switched where you'd turn them on and she was on the highway in the middle of a rainstorm. There is certainly a safety factor about knowing how stuff works.

And there in is the problem...reliance on a system that, at best, is only 80% reliable.

| There's also a special way to get the lights to turn off if | you're parked and waiting for someone too :P I think that there | should be a switch for if the owner wants the car to use | the auto lights or not. It's better then nothing for some people | though.

Most people would agree with you on that point, I suspect...the mode ("manual" or "auto") should be owner choice. Interestingly the Chryslers I've seen have switch positions "Auto-Off-Park-Headlights". Those owners that want the auto system can simply just leave the switch it in the auto position (dumb in my opinion). Those customers that want manual operation (for what ever reason...even an emergency) have a "normal" industry-standard functioning switch with a "Off" position (unless they accidently go beyond "Off" when turning the lights off). That configuration makes MUCH more sense.

| When I was up in northern Wisconsin a couple weeks ago you'd be | surprised how many older style GM trucks have just their DRLs on.

That's a well documented issue at the NHTSA...not just with trucks though. The visual queue of the DRLs giving the false impression to the driver that they have their lights on when they actually don't. The situation usually happens at dusk, dawn and in foggy weather when dash illunination is difficult (or impossible) to see...although this has been known to happen at night as well. One accident category that is statistially higher on DRL equipped vehicles are rear-end collisions.

| I have a Grand Prix that I let my mum drive while her Blazer was | being worked on and she could not figure out how to get the | headlights turned on so she ended up driving with the parking | lights and fog lights on.

I'm not suprised...happens all the time with the GMs. People can go from just about any make car to any other make car and know 75% how stuff in it works. Not true with GM's...even between their own models there are huge differences in the controls. One would think that economies of standardization would come into play at the same car company, wouldn't you?

| That thing has an electrochromatic inside rear view | mirror...I can't really see the point to that since the | back windows are factory tinted, it only darkens | whenever someone opens a door and the dome light | turns on.

That's interesting (and somewhat funny). Perhaps customers were complaining about the dome light reflection in the mirror blinding them ;-). OR maybe GM's own high-beam DRLS were false triggering the dimming sensor so they had to desensitize it (too much).

| Most of the stuff that I've figured out about gadgets on cars | is from sitting down in the car for awhile before I first drive it | and playing with everything. Hey..that's an idea. GM could | have the dealerships teach the customers how certain things worked.

I do the same thing...play with the gadgets.

I think GM's Saturn line does a "orientation" class for customers. I wonder how many customers attend. I guess the idea never took off with GMs other lines though. The last Chrysler I bought came with a orientation class. However, most of the controls worked mostly as one would expect them to work and the programming instructions in the manual were excellent so the class wasn't really needed.

| I remember quite a few years ago my mom and dad got a new | car and my mom couldn't figure out how to get the wipers | going since they switched where you'd turn them on and she | was on the highway in the middle of a rainstorm. There is | certainly a safety factor about knowing how stuff works. |

Standardization of controls is a good thing.