GM or Toyota

I drove a GM-Vauxhal in 1981 while I was in the UK. Nice ride. The sister car n North America was a olds Firenza. The Firenza was a POC by comparison. Only the same in shape. Parts were of lower quality, poor assembly, wasn't the same engine nor tranny. Even the paint finish was sub-par to the Euro version. Real poor vehicle.

But what does that have to do with Toyota recalls?

You need to look at the total number of vehicles each company had on the road at the time of the recalls, and the number involved.

The percentage of Toyotas on the road subject to recall, even with the MASSIVE recalls currently under way, are significantly lower than the percentage of either Ford or GM over the years.

The infamous engine mount recall by GM in the early 70's involved something like 80% of all GM vehicles on the road at that time. I installed a LOT of tie-down cables!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's the difference? Either subject is off-topic.

You're preaching to the chior. Over the years GM Ford and Chysler have recalled millions and millions of vehicles for even more serious issues than this; Ford even got away with issuing dashboard stickers for transmissions that could slip from Park to Reverse.

Toyota has one serious recall, albeit affecting a LOT of their vehicles, and all of a sudden they're the worst car maker on Earth.

This is affecting people who would never buy a Toyota in the first place a lot more than those of us who have had a few...or more.

vw have been 4-wheel independent since the 30's. those french citroen

2cv's were in the 40's. the fiat 500 was independent in the 50's. it's basically only detroit garbage that is /still/ being sold with horse-and-cart solid axles.

Not really hard to answer, just takes a little time.

Go back two or three years ago, in this newsgroup, before GM's bankruptcy and Obama takeover, when they were still solidly the number one auto company in the world, in terms of sales.

GM bashers constantly came over here with their incredible stories of how, their Toyota or Honda went 300,000 miles and never saw the inside of a mechanic's shop, while the 1981 Chevy Citation they bought broke down before they got if off the dealer's lot.

We used to hear it a lot.

You used to hear Toyota owners coming over here bragging about how much better gas mileage they got, even though it wasn't true..

Toyota owners would come over here informing us about Consumer Report's latest findings that a 1992 Chevy Lumina or 1993 Pontiac Grand Prix had "poor fit and finish", while the Toyota Camry was "flawless".

As Toyota closed the gap and eventually over took GM in total world=3Dwide sales, the GM bashers gleefully posted here keeping us posting in monthly and yearly sales regarding Toyota vs. GM.

Their joy could not be contained when GM filed for bankruptcy and the Obama admistration took over.

Of course, as the world-reknowned Jeremiah Wright would say, "the chickens have come home to roost"

Toyota has had Millions on millions on millions of recalls.

The number is growing almost daily.

They are in a bad way, no doubt about it.

Yet, the Toyota guys, now come over here defending her, (and their), honor.

They scream (and look stupid doing so), that Toy is still a better product than GM

Even cry that the US government is the reason for the problems that Toyota has.

Me, I simply think that in the end, what goes around comes around.

Reap what you sow, Toyota.

So true now that GM is dead and gone there is nothing really to talk about. Why not talk about something else.

The airplane industry is going through the same problems in europe as GM. Overstaffed and overprotective government keeping bad companies alive.

The new companies are growing lean and mean while the old have six to ten times as many staff as the new ones with a multiply sorts of airplanes while the new ones have only one or two types.

The similarities with GM vs the better upstarts is striking.

OMG! I remember that! But it wasn't that they would slip into reverse...I had a '76 Ford Granada with a automatic tranny that when you put it in park it occasionally wouldn't engage fully in the tranny, but on the column it was fine. The first time I discovered this, I had parked it on a very slight incline, got out of the car and started to walk away and then I heard "tick-tick-tick-tick..." getting progressively faster and looked to see the car rolling away! Had to run after it, unlock it while moving and jump in to hit the brake...Glad there was nothing around! lol Thier fix at the time was to issue a letter that said that this might happen and you should use the parking brake to prevent it from happening... lmao! NO car companies would not get away with that now, but Ford is a much different and better company now than in the 70's....and you have to remember too - Recalls were a "growing" evolution of car manufacturers and Gov'ts during that time. Back in the 60's 50's, 40's - There were no recalls...Things that happened on cars were considered "quirks" and owners were much more involved in the maintenance and fix of the cars than they are today's consumers, who demand 100% perfection all the time - no mistakes. So to say that "they got away with..." when you are referencing anything before, oh say around 1980 is kind of unfair. In fact, wasn't it the whole Ford Pinto gas tank thing in the 70's that really got the Gov't involved and the whole ball rolling on recalls and manufacturer's responsibility?

In message , =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= writes

I suspect that this incident is what caused both the US and UK governments to pass a law laying out automatic controls as P-R-N-D-L. I remember our government passing it after a series of AT cars went backward instead of forward, I remember one horrific incident where an old lady in an AT car was on a Ferry on the Tamar, but instead of going forward her car lurched back off of the ferry into 30feet of water, her body was recovered the next day.

(Cross posting deleted, automatically)

Well, that may actually make them a good buy! My biggest complaint about Toyotas is that they are over priced compared to other vehicles that are similar in quality and performance. In my opinion Toyota has enjoyed an undeserved reputation for exceptional quality for several years. I don't think Toyota builds bad vehicles any more than other main line manufacturers, but I don't think they build exceptionally good vehicles either. As a friend of mine said, Toyotas are extra-ordinary, not extraordinary....

Ed

(Cross posting deleted, automatically)

In message , =?iso-2022-jp?q?Hachiroku_=1B$B%O%A%m%=2F=1B=28B?= writes

Vauxhall and Opel are really the same arm of GM where in England Ellesmere Port, make all the Astra's for both Marques and Luton Make all the vans for both marques. Factories around Europe make different models like Germany produces the Corsa with both badges, It's just that all the output of the combined factories make the full range and in Britain all the cars sold are all badged as Vauxhall, whereas in the rest of Europe the standard brand name is Opel. Where "Which?" Divides cars into five categories from very good to very poor,Vauxhall/Opel come out at the bottom of average.

Really? Why did you post this in a toyota, gm and ford group?

And just when, for the information of others on this list, did that happen?????? LONG before the Escort came on the scene in England.

And the Vauxhaull/Opel is one of the best car lines you can buy in Europe. They were not a BAD car on this side of the pond either - at least not the Vauxhall. Never had Opels in Canada to any extent, just like the US didn't get many Vauxhaulls.

My last Vauxhaul was a 72 Viva HC Magnum rebranded as a Pontiac Firenza. GREAT little car.As long as you remembered it was a british car, not a Pontiac, and serviced it accordingly.

Not to forget, how many countries would you need to drive through to cover the distance from NYC to Detroit - much less from Tampa to Seattle or Bangor Maine to SanDiego?????? In Britain it's pretty hard to drive 100 miles in a straight line. In most of Continental Europe it is the same.

And only a VERY few of even them. Basically the truck based stuff and the Mustang.