GM or Toyota

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wrote:


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Mike Hunter wrote:

Really? Why did you post this in a toyota, gm and ford group?
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You probably are more correct in your assessment than most of us who post here, C.E.!
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On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:13:48 -0500, Mike Hunter wrote:

Bullshit. Ford had a recall of 12M vehicles for exploding cruise controls.
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wrote:

You need to look at the total number of vehicles each company had on the road at the time of the recalls, and the number involved.
The percentage of Toyotas on the road subject to recall, even with the MASSIVE recalls currently under way, are significantly lower than the percentage of either Ford or GM over the years.
The infamous engine mount recall by GM in the early 70's involved something like 80% of all GM vehicles on the road at that time. I installed a LOT of tie-down cables!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 22:08:38 -0500, clare wrote:

You're preaching to the chior. Over the years GM Ford and Chysler have recalled millions and millions of vehicles for even more serious issues than this; Ford even got away with issuing dashboard stickers for transmissions that could slip from Park to Reverse.
Toyota has one serious recall, albeit affecting a LOT of their vehicles, and all of a sudden they're the worst car maker on Earth.
This is affecting people who would never buy a Toyota in the first place a lot more than those of us who have had a few...or more.

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Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

OMG! I remember that! But it wasn't that they would slip into reverse...I had a '76 Ford Granada with a automatic tranny that when you put it in park it occasionally wouldn't engage fully in the tranny, but on the column it was fine. The first time I discovered this, I had parked it on a very slight incline, got out of the car and started to walk away and then I heard "tick-tick-tick-tick..." getting progressively faster and looked to see the car rolling away! Had to run after it, unlock it while moving and jump in to hit the brake...Glad there was nothing around! lol Thier fix at the time was to issue a letter that said that this might happen and you should use the parking brake to prevent it from happening... lmao! NO car companies would not get away with that now, but Ford is a much different and better company now than in the 70's....and you have to remember too - Recalls were a "growing" evolution of car manufacturers and Gov'ts during that time. Back in the 60's 50's, 40's - There were no recalls...Things that happened on cars were considered "quirks" and owners were much more involved in the maintenance and fix of the cars than they are today's consumers, who demand 100% perfection all the time - no mistakes. So to say that "they got away with..." when you are referencing anything before, oh say around 1980 is kind of unfair. In fact, wasn't it the whole Ford Pinto gas tank thing in the 70's that really got the Gov't involved and the whole ball rolling on recalls and manufacturer's responsibility?
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On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 07:56:32 -0500, IYM wrote:

All true. What galls me is the people attacking TOyota and overlooking some of these magnificent recalls from American companies, like recalls are something new.
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Recalls are by far nothing new. I remember when the likes of USA Today would front-page ANY recall GM or Ford had, no matter how insignicant it would be as far as safety or reliability was concerned.
The big thing is the total number of recalls the Toyotas are having today. It's totally in the tens of millions over the past few years, and like a snowball rolling downhill, growing on an almost daily basis. You can whitewash it any way you want, they have major issues to deal with.
And, unlike the tire pressure monitor, or dome light malfunction, or heaven forbid, the leaking gasket recalls GM had in the 80's and 90's, Toyota has REAL safety and relibility issues.
Sludging engines.
Rusting suspensions.
Throttles sticking wide open.
Braking issues.
If you feel that Toyota is being unfairly attacked, then you know exactly how I feel about the way GM has been attacked for the past 25-30 years.
Now, just compare the things on which the GM and Toyota were attacked.
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jr92 wrote:

Hey - just want to let everyone know that Toyota has gotten into manufacturing keyboards and I picked one up today. Little pricey but the quality seems okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
damn.....never mind... :)
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wrote:

Best post of the day ..
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On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 21:19:12 -0800 (PST), jr92

As late as the early '80s , or whenever GM stopped using full frames on their cars, GM also had a SERIOUS frame rusting problem. The early Ford Taurus line had a serious problem with subframe mounts rusting off, litterally drolpping the subframes off the body. (due to body-mount washers disintegrating) The 80-81 Tercel rear suspension rustout was fairly limitted to the "rust belt" and when doing the recall, well less than 10% even here in "salt central" Ontario required replacement. The recall involved punch testing, and rustproofing those that passed the punch test. Some had internal coating (like paint) from the factory, and some did not. I THINK it was a dual source situation. Toyota used to ALWAYS have 2 sources for everything. 2 different brake suppliers. 2 different tail-light suppliers. 2 different headlight suppliers, 2 different suspension strut suppliers, etc way back when all toyotas were made in Japan. They were interchangeable as an assembly although parts did not necessarily interchange between assemblies.

for the floor mat issue, virtually NEVER without warning. The sticky throttle has ALWAYS been a "progressive failure" - with pedal effort increasing before the throttles stuck.

it only shows up in situations where braking is affected already - like rough and/or slippery roads - where if you are driving sensibly for the conditions it will NOT cause an accident. Nothing mechanical either.

But GM deserved it every bit as much as Toyota.

In many cases the same things.
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On 13 Feb, 06:26, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

Problem was GM never fixed it that is why they died and went to .........
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writes

governments to pass a law laying out automatic controls as P-R-N-D-L. I remember our government passing it after a series of AT cars went backward instead of forward, I remember one horrific incident where an old lady in an AT car was on a Ferry on the Tamar, but instead of going forward her car lurched back off of the ferry into 30feet of water, her body was recovered the next day.
--
Clive


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criteria of all governments whereas for instance the EU is very strict on what cars can be sold in it's area, which is why firms like Ford and GM have to make a totally different product for the EU.
--
Clive


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On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:46:16 +0000, Clive wrote:

That why they don't sell US designed cars there?
The UK version of the Escort was pretty close to the US version. OTOH, GM had to buy Vauxhaul to get an 'in' in European markets.
I've heard they're junk, too...
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Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

A large part of why there are different cars for different markets is that the markets have different needs. The Japanese and European markets have fuel that is like 3 or 4 times higher than the price of fuel in the US. SO fuel economy is more important than in the US. In addition, both Europe and Japan are much more interested in fuel economy than we are in the US. In both markets, there is less room for cars, so smaller cars are more useful.
And, besides this, the people have different tastes. In the US, for years people have liked big boat-type cars. In Europe, people have preferred smaller, more nimble cars. For example, Olds was advertising that it had the first 4-wheel independent suspension car made in the US in 1987 or 1988. The Peugeot 504 on which I learned to drive had four-wheel indpendent suspension 13 years earlier.
And the emissions and safety requirements are different, too.
Jeff
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On 02/10/2010 06:16 PM, dr_jeff wrote:

vw have been 4-wheel independent since the 30's. those french citroen 2cv's were in the 40's. the fiat 500 was independent in the 50's. it's basically only detroit garbage that is /still/ being sold with horse-and-cart solid axles.

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And only a VERY few of even them. Basically the truck based stuff and the Mustang.

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