Nissan to Buy GM!!!!??

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You mean like the 'Car of the year' MT awarded to the AMC Alliance? LOL
mike hunt


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Mike Hunter wrote:

Also 1971 to the Chevy Vega and 1976 to the Dodge Aspen/Plymouth Volare!
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Dave wrote:

Back in those days it seems that MT's Car of the Year awards had a whole lot more to do with $$$$$ relationships with manufacturers than it did with the quality of the vehicles chosen. Also, my recollection is that in the 70s a car had to be from a US nameplate in order to even be considered for the dubious honor of being named car of the year.
In modern times, Car & Driver's "10 Best" list is a much more respectable effort by a long, long shot.
John
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Car/Truck of the year award simply means in MT opinion it is the best ALL NEW car/truck brought to the market that year. Vehicles introduces in prior years are not eligible
The fact that a car based vehicle, like the Ridgerunner, can be awarded 'TRUCK' of the year, proves is to a meaningless award. ;)
mike hunt

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says...

Agreed.
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Meaningless to the motorheads, but a real genuine reason to buy for the unknowing. Makes for great marketing
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Civic..
I just went through this a month and a half ago, compare something people will be more likely to buy, not the Si and the SS:
2006 Cobalt LS Sedan 2.2L, Mileage - 25/34, Base MSRP $13,490.00 What you get in the BASE Cobalt that the base model Civic doesn't have: A/C 60/40 split folding rear seat (Civic folds but not 60/40 in the DX) 5 Year powertrain warranty
2006 Civic DX Sedan 1.8L, Mileage - 30/38, Base MSRP $14,760.00 What you get in a BASE Civic that the base model Cobalt doesn't have: ABS 6 Air Bags Floor mats MP3 CD Player Power Windows Tilt and Telescoping steering column
Also good to point out that a 2002 Cavalier can be had for between $4,500CDN and $13,000CDN while a 2002 Civic goes for $6,600CDN to $20,000CDN.
Steve
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Do you think a folding seat and a smaller engine is worth $1,500? A four year old Honda should be worth more, it cost more than the difference when new. ;)
mike hunt

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What? I'm not sure what you are trying to say.
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That's a strange remark considering the Ford Fusion out scored the Camry and Accord all European brands in a recently published owner survey. The Fusion cost thousands less to boot. ;)
mike hunt

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Based on the "quality" of the first Foci, you can't hardly blame buyers from staying away. I would. I had a friend that worked for Ford when the Focus first came out; he let me drive his new car (he was very proud of it) and I have to admit that I was impressed at how well it drove for a small, inexpensive American car. After seven recalls in the first year, however, his opinion rapidly changed... This is the kind of rep the American mfgrs. have to overcome if they are ever going to come back. GM is not immune either, remember the Fiero? They finally turned it into the car it should have been when it was introduced, right before they killed it. You don't let your customers do your beta testing for you and expect to be a leader (unless you're Microsoft, and that still boggles my mind.)
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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A recall simply means the manufacture has discover a problem in the field, or on the assemble line, and wants to fix it for FREE.
Ford did with the Focus what the Japanese have been doing for years, sell the vehicle in other markets to flesh it out before bringing it to the US. If you would research the recalls for the 2000 Focus you will discover they were minor, effected few vehicles and applied mostly to vehicles not yet delivered to customers at the time. The competitors of the Focus like the Civic, and the Corolla, also had numerous recalls.. They were minor and did not apply to all that were build as well.
In any event that was then. Today Fords new vehicles have been trouble free and out scored the Camry and the Accord, in that survey of owners.
mike hunt

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That makes absolutely no difference to the customers who had to repeatedly bring their vehicles back to the dealership and be without them for days at a time. The Japanese have a reputation of not doing this. The US mfgrs. have a reputation of doing this repeatedly. It will take years of consistently high quality vehicles for this perception to be reversed.
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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You forgot to say in my opinion. I have owned a lot of vehicles, both domestic and foreign and I do not find that to be a true statement. I had to begin litigation before Honda agreed to replace an engine on my daughters new vehicle, because of a blown oil seal, to make them do so.
mike hunt

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It's not just my opinion, it's the opinions of a whole mess of people. Most of the people I interact with on a daily basis drive Japanese or Korean cars as they seem to think that they offer the best value for the money, and don't even consider anything American made past 1970 (and very few people who aren't hard core gearheads want to be bothered owning something that old.) The few who don't drive Asian cars buy European, usually German, as the reputation is that they are a little more costly to run but are more durable. The only people I know with newer American cars had them provided to them by their employer.
Now whether or not this is actually the state of affairs NOW is debatable, but it certainly has been historically true, and perceptions like that take a LONG time to fade away, we're talking a decade or more, unless something really spectacular happens to change their mind. This is the reality that US mfgrs. need to understand, and quickly, before it's too late.
I can certainly say from personal experience that the way another friend of mine was treated at an Infiniti dealer (when he was driving a cheap used G20) as opposed to the way the friend I mentioned before was treated with his brand new Focus, would certainly make me want to buy Japanese, had I been in the market for a new car at the time.
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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Obviously those that drive Japanese, European and Korean vehicles believe they are the best value for the money, that is WHY they bought them. Just as obvious is the fact that these that buy domestics believe the vehicles THEY buy are the best value for the money, that is WHY they bought them, as well.
The fact is far more buyers choose the vehicles sold by GM and Ford than ANY import brand, period. If what more people chose to buy, determines which vehicles are the best buy, then domestic by far are the better buy.
I don't buy used vehicles. The reason I stopped buying vehicles from Lexus was, as a frequent buyer, the dealer was taking me for granted after purchasing half a dozen of them from him. My current domestic brand dealer treats me like a frequent buyer should be treated ;)
mike hunt

<snip>>
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If by "more people" you include fleet buyers, then you are correct.
I don't see many American vehicles on the road anymore that aren't obviously fleet vehicles, or else not cars.
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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You must not get out much, if that is what you believe. GM and Ford sell millions more vehicles in the US than any import. Every manufacturer sells to fleets, it is just that most corporate fleet buyers prefer domestics. You can bet the farm manufactures, including import brands that sell to the rental car companies, do not care WHO buys their vehicles, as long as they buy them. LOL
mike hunt

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I'm just going by what I see on the roads every day; I actually thought of you the other day as I was driving home from work, I saw a Cobalt ahead of me and it was so odd that it made me look around, it was the only non-Japanese or Korean car around, and I was in heavy traffic.
nate
Mike Hunter wrote:

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says...

Most fleet operators have tried import brands but revert back to domestics because they are far "cheaper" to operate, maintain, and repair. Hard numbers defeat over hyped name recognition every time.
Can someone find me a Sedan that makes about 260 hp & 280 torque or better? That also gets 19 city & 28 highway or better? Oh and that is also WELL under $30k after tax & fully loaded?
No timing belts either. I dont like having wrecked valves on out of the blue failures before I get 60k miles out of a vehicle. I also dont like spending half the vehicles value or better on repairs when it is less than 5 years old.

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