a little off for some groups: 1989 Mazda 626 clacking from top of engine

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On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:55:06 +0000, Grumpy AuContraire wrote:


It's not really a 'lifter', as I think I understand the term.
The car has an OHC, 3 valves per cylinder. They are actuated by rockers, and at the end of each rocker is an HLA (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster). I guess it's supposed to eliminate the need to adjust the valves by expanding or 'deflating' with oil to take up the slack. It seems they collect gunk, as do the holes providing the oil.
It seems the MMO added to the oil has taken care of this for now. They look fairly easy to replace. Once it comes off the road for the summer.
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Sounds like the same operation as a hydraulic lifter, but located on the other end of the rocker arm. Lifters deflate in pretty much the same way, but I don't know if it is usually that they stick "down" or if they leak too badly to work.
Your plan to tackle it when more convenient sounds good to me. At least a collapsed HLA (almost wrote "lifter") won't strand you anywhere.
Mike
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On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:30:40 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

Well, once it fianally STOPS snowing I'll pull of the valve cover and have a look. I have a Supra I use in the summer, the Mazda's a winter beater. When the Supra goes on the road I plan on giving the Mazda a better going over than I did in December when I bought it. But the forecast is for more snow this week.
And the funny thing is, I drove it about 20 miles yesterday, no problem. This afternoon it fired up just fine, I drove it about 7 miles and the ticking came back. I stopped for a cup of coffee, and the next three times I started it, it ran fine.
So, I guess the cover comes off in the (real) spring...
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Michael Pardee wrote:

I never heard anything negative about MMO in the forty-five years that I've been "tinkering" with cars. Makes a hell of an "oil can" squirter lubricant too..
JT
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snipped-for-privacy@ExtraGrumpyville.com says...

Marvel Mystery Oil
Manufacturer Name     THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC Street     5655 W 73RD STREET City     CHICAGO State     IL Country     US Zip Code     60638 Emergency Phone     708-563-3766 Information Phone     708-563-3766
Ingredient #     01 Ingredient Name     BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO- CAS Number     95501 Percent     0 Ingredient #     02 Ingredient Name     MINERAL SPIRITS CAS Number     8052413 Percent     0 Ingredient #     03 Ingredient Name     NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS CAS Number     64742525 Percent     0
I got the above info from here:
http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/msds/docs/wcd00043/wcd04377.htm
--
I. Care
Address fake until the SPAM goes away ;-}
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On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 19:49:16 -0700, I.Care wrote:

Interesting...BENZENE?!?!?!
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I. Care wrote:

good on you! i have a really strong opinion on anything related to oil sales and the total lack of labeling thereof. it's all to deceive the consumer. manufacturers all know what their competition is using - they have labs. consumers don't, and this information vacuum is the void into which garbage is sold. msds info like you've dug up /is/ available, but it's not exactly front and center, and even then, there's get-outs for "proprietary" contents. the whole machine is a scam.
i say: 1. label all products, just like food and shampoo.
and while we're at it: 2. make publication of the calorie content of gasoline mandatory. alcohol content is mandatory on beverages, calorie content is published for natural gas. same principles should apply to gasoline.
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I did a little research on this Mike.
" On the other side of the engine block are those additives which will cleanse your engine, not coat it. Stuff like Bardahl, Rislone and Marvel Mystery Oil claim they can make your engine run quieter and smoother, and reduce oil burning. These are products which contain solvents or detergents such as kerosene, naphthalene, xylene, acetone or isopropanol. If used properly, I suppose these products will strip off your Teflon and zinc protective coatings! But unless you have a really old and abused car, you probably have no need of stripping away sludge and deposits from your engine. Thus, you probably have no need for these wonder cleaners. If you overuse such products you can damage your engine by promoting metal to metal contact".
This came from the following site: http://skepdic.com/slick50.html . I couldn't find much about the contents but I would conclude that it is a petroleum distillate solvent that removes sludge, dirt, and other corruption thereby enhancing the oil flow but I can't prove such. I would say it is a temporary fix for an engine that has been neglected over time...
DaveD

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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:27:53 +0000, Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

Interesting:
There is a Horrible ticking from under may valve cover. What is it? How can i fix it?
This is your Hydraulic Lash Adjusters (HLAs) starving of oil. HLAs are essentially maintenance free and as soon as they start to tick they are supposed to be replaced. Unfortunately Mazda/Ford wants an arm and a leg for them. There is a way to squeeze some life out of them.
1. Pour some ATX oil into your engine. DO NOT USE A LOT, 300ML WILL BE SUFFICIENT. Auto transmission oil/fluid is VERY high in detergents so it will remove most of the gunk from the HLAs and anything else that oil has contact with. Drive on this oil mixture for a day or two, no more. 2. During an oil change, get yourself some engine flush(readily available at any Auto parts retailer) follow instruction on the can/bottle 3. Put new oil in.
If this procedure did not fix your HLA tick (not to be confused with injector tick which is normal) you ether will need to clean HLAs physically or replace them.
This procedure is not recommended for engines which have some oil consumption, as this will clean out all the gunk in piston rings as well, and you might end up using more oil and smoke badly too
____________________________________________________________________
I was approaching an oil change anyway. I wonder if adding more MMO might have a similar effect...
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On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 02:27:53 +0000, Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:

Thanks to everyone who responded! Ray O wins the prize: It looks like a collapsed Hydraulic Lash Adjuster. These look pretty easy to remove and replace, but I have found a number of resources on the web as to how to clean them.
Also, I will try the 'lazy man's' way suggested by another poster, ie adding ATF or Marvel Oil before the next oil change. It was due in 500 more miles anyway, so I'll try 'flushing' it and see what happens. One method suggests simply sliding the rockers and pulling the HLAs out and cleaning them, another prescribes removing the rocker cams and arms and a thorough cleaning. Since the car is so clean, I will probably do this after I park it for the summer!
Pray for me...(I can be a Gumby at times!)
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LOL... Welcome to the club...
--
" ya gotta let it out, Captain! " ( Jaime Brockett )


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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 17:46:52 +0000, Remove This wrote:
Oh, My God!!!!

So the Captain, he let it all out at once....
Prone right down on the wheelhouse floor...oh, this brings us up to what's happenin' again, folks!
The Titanic, she's sailing around in and out between the icebergs; The _______ people are having parties and trading wives, Cadillacs and diamonds; The sail people are hoistin' up landlubbers and battenin' down hatches; The First Mate's hangin' over the rail havin' himself a little smoke and diggin' the icebergs;
AND THE CAPTAIN'S OUT COLD ON THE WHEELHOUSE FLOOR!!!!!!!!!
(that last line was my yearbook quote...!)
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If the lifters are easy to pull, let them soak overnight in solvent or kerosene and re-install.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)
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I don't have much experience with hydraulic lifters, but the one time I had to replace some I replaced them all. Replacing them isn't without risk, since the cam lobes were fitted to the originals and now they're pushing a whole new set, but the buzz was that if one or more were collapsed the others were in similar shape. I got rid of the car for other reasons a few months later.
I was advised any attempted repair is temporary. Maybe that would have been good enough for a few months :-(
Mike
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Michael Pardee wrote:

I agree. Once a lifter becomes noisy, it's time to bite the bullet and replace 'em all.
Regarding "fitting to the cam," well that's another issue nowadays since modern motor oils tend not to support good lubrication of direct contact engine parts (also due to EPA restrictions). So far, diesel rated lubricants still have the additives to prevent wear on direct contact engine components.
Roller lifters available for vintage cars including Honda anyone?
JT
(Who's manual calls for motor oil for the tranny which is also a no-no these days...)
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Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

really? where's you get that information from?

why diesel lubes? what's the composition difference?

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jim beam wrote:

We went through this a few months ago. I'm much too lazy to do it again.
JT
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:32:23 -0700, Michael Pardee wrote:

Hmmm...excuse me if I seem a bit ignorant here. What this car has is Hydraulic Lash Adjusters (HLAs). It is at the end of the rocker and pushes the shims over the valves down to open the valves. (Um, what's the difference between this and a hydraulic lifter...?)
You can replace them without removing the rocker shafts, but I have seen a couple write ups that say they don't go bad for no reason, and the reason is usually that the holes that feed the oil to the HLAs are plugged. So, it is possible to clean the HLAs and the holes feeding them oil.
I guess I'll investigate when I park the Mazda and put the Supra on the road...!
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