Can you "feel" a difference after a regular oil change?

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Jeff wrote: <snip for clarity>


of course he is - he doesn't understand what the heck he's talking about.
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Jeff wrote:

No offense, but you need to learn to read for comprehension. Nowhere do they make a claim on that page that their 5W20 synthetic base stock product provides better fuel economy that a comparable 5W20 petroleum base stock product.
Why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows a benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any!
After all these years you'd think that there would be at least one published study that showed a provable benefit in terms of wear, MPG, or extended change intervals for synthetics uses in non-high performance engines, operated in moderate climates. But there aren't _any_. There's anecdotes by users of synthetics, there's claims by companies like Amsoil which have never been validated, and of course various claims by MLM people selling Amsoil. Just choose your benefit from one of the hundreds of MLM web sites!
Of course there probably have been plenty of studies that were done but not published because they didn't have the results that the company paying for the study wanted.
It's amusing that not even Mobil, who would have the most to gain by some evidence of increased fuel economy for synthetics, can make that claim. All we see is a heavily qualified statement that logically makes no sense:
"Actual savings are dependent upon vehicle/engine type, outside temperature, driving conditions, adjusting tire pressure, and your current engine oil viscosity."
Huh? So adjusting tire pressure affects how well synthetic oil works (as opposed to how well dino oil performs, LOL). And how does your current oil viscosity, if it's the same as the viscosity of the synthetic, make any difference.
So here's what Mobil thinks you should do:
1. Change to a lower viscosity of synthetic base stock oil than the petroleum base stock oil that you're currently using
2. Drive only in extremely cold temperatures where sythetic has a benefit at start-up.
3. Adjust your tire pressure, from the previously under-inflated pressure you had with your petroleum base stock oil, to the proper pressure.
Geez, some people are gullible.
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SMS wrote: <snip for clarity>

<snip>
STOOOOPID.
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Far as I'm concerned, SMS is a long-haired maggot-infested dope-smoking FM type. If he was called to give professional testimony, as a judge, I'd have the whole thing stricken from the record as being unreliable.
Charles Grozny
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Tire pressure affects fuel economy.

If you change from 10W30 regular to 5W20 synthetic vs. changing from 2W20 regular to 5W20 synthetic, you will have a different change in fuel economy.

Where did they say that?

Where did they say that?

Where did they say that?

And some people are just plain stupid. You have GW Bush disease.
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Jeff wrote:
<snip>

Of course it does, but Mobil is being disingenuous when they claim that tire pressure has an effect on how well their synthetic base stock oil performs versus how well a petroleum base stock oil performs. It makes no difference. You should keep your tires properly inflated no matter which type of oil you use.

And if you change from 10W30 petroleum base stock to 5W20 petroleum base stock you'll see the same change in fuel economy. Of course you should not make that change no matter which base stock you're using, but that's another matter entirely.
Mobil is trying to get people to change multiple variables at the same time, one of them being the base stock of the oil, then claiming the increased fuel economy from switching to a lower viscosity oil and proper tire pressure is due to the change in the base stock.
Even for their "Advanced Fuel Economy" formulation, the increase in MPG isn't due to the base stock being synthetic, except for the fact that apparently it's not practical to make a petroleum base stock 0Wxx oil. Even then, they're hedging their bets, admitting that the advantage is during start-up, not during normal operation.
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SMS wrote:

dude, you have a serious reading comprehension problem.

see above. quit while you're behind.
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I used to work for a company that made polymer or synthetic additives to prolong oil life, I am also old enough to remember when it was normal to change oil ever 3000 miles, but due to additives now the oil wear is less, modern oils allow for annual changes or up to 20,000 miles between changes, that's what synthetics are all about. ( Yes it wears out due to the shear forces in an engine chopping up the long chain molecules into shorter runnier ones, lowering it's viscosity and therefore protection.)
--
Clive

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Clive wrote:

Yes, longer change intervals is what synthetic is good for. When Mobil 1 first came out, Mobil was promoting 25K miles between oil changes, but they quickly backed down from that recommendation because they didn't want to be liable for warranty issues resulting from owners violating the required oil change interval in the manual.
Now the longer change intervals are finally making it to the U.S.. The Mini Cooper is at 15K miles now with synthetic. Going beyond 15-20K is dicey, not because the oil no longer lubricates, but because of the acidity caused by the by-products of combustion. If you could add some more additives that neutralize the acid, you could go even longer.
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One reason why synthetics last longer is they already have more additives. The additives often cost more than the base stock oil.
Jeff
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Jeff wrote:

actually, it's stability of the base oil, not so much the additives. because the base is highly refined, it doesn't have nasties in it like aromatics, branched chains, sulfur, etc. thus the base, 1-decene for example, is highly stable, and so doesn't break down. indeed, 25k was mobil's original stance on synthetics because it was a real number, and they were prepared to unconditionally guarantee it too. but it's not good for sales and dealer service profits, so they backed down. you can try it yourself though - just send oil in for analysis and see how it's doing.
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Jeff wrote:

Hi, How about starting with definition of synthetic?
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Tony Hwang wrote:

actually, "synthetic" is hokus pokus. been to the auto parts store lately? looked at brake fluid? noticed how there's a premium on "synthetic"? well, /all/ brake fluid is "synthetic"!
for motor oil, provided the base stock has the required formula, it doesn't matter whether it was refined or synthesized.
one more thing - despite the fact that "synthetic" motor oils can indeed be superior stuff, their price premium is a rip compared to production price. in indonesia where there's a large g.t.l. [gas to liquid] facility that manufactures a lot of the world's synthetic oil base stocks, the stuff they don't sell for lubes is sold as diesel oil. yes, it's that cheap.
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jim beam wrote:

Hi, Where do you live? Have any experience driving in sub-arctic zone where they never shut off engines once it is started in winter time? Even where I live, it is PRETTY cold in the winter. Including wind chill, temp. can reach down to -45F or so. Synthetic oil DOES make big difference.
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Tony Hwang wrote:

Yes, it's true that synthetics have a benefit in extremely cold climates.
But go by the actual temperature, your car engine doesn't care about the wind chill, which is solely for body heat.
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Tony Hwang wrote:

the oil does indeed make a difference - i'm talking about the word. "s-y-n-t-h-e-t-i-c" is primarily a retail marketing device. "group IV" is what the industry uses.
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Jeff wrote:

Actually one benefit of the synthetics is that the superior base stock needs less additives to maintain viscosity, so you get more base stock and less viscosity modifiers.
Synthetics become acidic, and eventually become saturated with suspended soot particles, just like regular oil.
An oil analysis is a good investment to determine the optimum oil change interval, but since you really shouldn't be exceeding the manufacturer's requirements during the warranty period, and the manufacturers are very conservative, there's no benefit to using a synthetic if you're doing 7500 or 5000 mile oil changes (except in very cold climates).
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SMS wrote:

/all/ motor oils become acidic. that's because of combustion product.

er, the whole point of using analysis is so that you /know/ the condition of the oil. wtf would you disregard analysis in favor of guesswork?
> during the warranty period, and the manufacturers are very

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SMS wrote:

Hmmm, I don't live my life based on some one's claim.
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Jeff wrote:

Hi, Then you must be so called motor vehicle operator, not a driver.
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