What to do to a new Elantra?

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Hi, I drive 2005 tiburon. I live in NY. What kind of grease do you use on the studs to protect them? or is any kind of grease fine? what exactly do
you guys mean buy dry and clean? I've read that the lugs should be torqued to 80ft/lbs. I've been doing this and have had no problems. Torque the lugs often will lead to damage? Thats not good seeing as how i want to rotate my tires every 3,000 miles to help them last longer then 12,000 miles.
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paxfaux wrote:

I use either wheel bearing grease or plain old Vaseline. Be clear in that I apply the grease only to the exposed part of the stud AFTER the lug nut has been torqued properly.
Clean and dry means just that. Use a solvent to wipe down the lug stud (brake cleaner works quite well for this) and then let it dry before you torque the lug nuts. Now, I personally don't do this, but then I've torqued fasteners for 35 years and I've got a pretty good feel for what is enough so I don't worry about a little residual grease on the threads.
However, I would not recommend that anyone else do anything other than follow the manufacturer's recommendations and they pretty much always specify dry torque values for lug nuts. I think that is nuts, but that is another story entirely...
Matt
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wrote:

I had my car at a tire shop recently. I specifically requested that they torque the lug nuts by hand and a torque wrench rather than the air wrench. They complied but acted as if this was a very unusual request.
Old_Timer
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You only get 12k out of a set of tires? Do you get many traffic tickets?
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The guys at the local tire shope tell me you can't get a tire to fit my wheels (17''x7.5'') that will last longer then 12,000 - 15,000 miles. And from my experience, that is true. My father has a chrysler 300 with 18'' wheels and his tires lasted about 14,000 so there must be something to it.
Matt, the lug nut sits pretty tight agains the wheel, but the studs could be exposed behind the wheel? Is that where you use the vasaline? Is it worth doing in the summer months as well?
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paxfaux wrote:

There is no way I know of to get behind the wheel and that generally isn't a big problem in any event. If your lug stud is about flush with the nut, then I'd just smear a thin film over the end of the stud and the groove where the threads start so that water can't follow the threads.
No, probably not necessary in the summer unless you live in a very humid area or near the ocean.
Matt
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Hello paxfaux,
p> The guys at the local tire shope tell me you can't get a tire to fit p> my wheels (17''x7.5'') that will last longer then 12,000 - 15,000 p> miles. And from my experience, that is true. ???!
I have a Tiburon that has 17" x 7.5" wheels (I believe) and it has the factory 215 x 45 x 17 Michelins on it. The car has over 23,000 miles on it and the tires have a ways to go yet before they wear out. I don't normally peel my tires but I corner pretty aggressively from time to time. I also rotate them every 7500 miles or so. I expect to get at least 30,000 from them if not more.
So the guys at the tire shop are wrong.
Regards, Wayne Moses Houston, Texas
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If you say so. I had the Pilots on for at least 22,000 myself but they should have been changed long before that. by the time i changed them they were almost down to the steel. You can say they are wrong but the tires still ware out by 15,000. I'm talking about the penny test, there is still plenty of visible tread at 15,000 but its still time for new tires. I don't "peel out" either.
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The 18" Bridgestones on my 07 Santa Fe now have 16K miles on them and show very little wear. I usually get at least 50K miles from a set of tires. Maybe the roads you drive on are paved with broken glass or else you burn rubber at every start.
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45:16) about "Re: Torquing lug nuts":
>> Uh oh .. I was waiting to see when that was going to crop up in this >> thread. ;-)
MW> This thread has been dead for a week. Try to keep up next time.
Wasn't dead when I found the time to drop by. Besides you being a licensed engineer surely is not dead nor is the fact that it seemed to not matter to those with viewpoints other than yours.
Personally I prefer to contribute when I can and I resist the temptation to tell people what to do.
:-) !
MW> Is licenced anything like licensed? Which state or province?
Does the answer to either question matter?
I will answer the second - New Brunswick and Ontario.
Best Regards
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Wayne Moses wrote:

I don't mind offering advice when I have advice to offer. I believe I do with respect to the original question about what steps to take to ensure that fasteners on a car don't rust in place.

Sure. When I see someone who claims to be an engineer, I like to know they are legitimate and I tend to look them up to be sure. I was not able to find your name listed so I was simply confirming.
Also, when I find an educated person that can't spell a simple word like license, it makes me suspicious also. However, I found that even this web site prominently misspells the word in one of its headers! :-)
http://www.engineerscanada.ca/e/imm_incanada_1.cfm

Do they have an online license verification registry? Most US states now provide this service, but I haven't found a site yet for provinces in Canada.
Regards, Matt
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26:08) about "Re: Torquing lug nuts":
MW> Also, when I find an educated person that can't spell a simple word MW> like license, it makes me suspicious also.
What about grammar? In your sentence above the word preceding "... can't spell..." should be "who". ;-)
It so happens that I sort of agree with you but one has to qualify 'educated'. Any experienced engineer to whom things like this matter would tell you that engineers, despite their level of education, are poor spellers, poor in grammar and even poor communicators. Thus we may be flogging a dead horse on this issue.
Suffice it to say that I was writing my reply on a pocket PC using handwriting recognition software to translate my cursive hand in to text. So I think I can be forgiven my spelling error. AAMOF I am presently replying on the same platform.
Besides I was raised and educated using British English spelling as opposed to (American English) so you may find other words to pick on from time to time.
MW> http://www.engineerscanada.ca/e/ imm_incanada_1.cfm
>> I will answer the second - New Brunswick and Ontario.
Try http://peo.on.ca and while you are at it you may want to visit the SNAME website. As a naval architect I am a member of that institution.
http://sname org
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FWIW, I use "licence" as a noun, and "license" as a verb...but then, I speak Early American, too. Oxford who?
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I've read this here many times, and I've also read links that people point to in supporting this point. It has never convinced me though. I've always seen in those links, something beyond the simple issue of grease vs. no grease. The dry lug contention in my opinion, refers to a new condition, clean lug. That's something seldom found on a car that has a few thousand miles on it. Taking the matter to a further length, too much normal corrosion will yield a higher resistance to lower torques, and will create a false torque reading, as the reading will be responsive to the thread resistance and not the force being applied to the wheel. It's the torque when mating to the wheel that you're interested in and not just the torque on the lug. If the nut can easily run up the lug and snug to the wheel, then you're going to get a truer reading than if the lug is rusty. A light coat of grease is not going to create a significantly different resistance to torque at the thread, but a dry and normally corroded lug will. Put down the impact gun and run a nut on by hand and you can easily feel the resistance. As in everything else, there's more to the issue of grease/no grease than the simplification of reducing the matter to a statement that says no-grease.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

All it takes is a light brushing with a stainless or bronze brush to remove any rust from the threads if necessary. It takes no more time than greasing does. There is no need to use grease. It DOES make a big difference in the friction when installing a lug. If you don't want to take my word for it, ask Hyundai. For that matter, there are more than a few people on other forums who have snapped off Elantra wheel studs after greasing them. Go ask them what they think of the practice now.
For the record, you should also not install lugs when they or the wheel are wet, for exactly the same reason. Sometimes it's unavoidable - when changing a flat in the rain, for example - but you should remove them when it's convenient, let them dry, they re-torque them properly.
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Brian Nystrom wrote:

If they used the dry thread torque setting with lubricated threads, then they might cause a problem, but they would still have to dramatically overtorque the nuts to "snap off" the studs. Most dry torque values are no more than 90% of the yield limit and this is way below the ultimate limit for most common steels. Adding oil to the threads will not, by itself, cause a lug to fail, at least not the first time. If you repeatedly exceed the yield stress, you could elongate the stud to failure, but I'll bet they were also over torquing in addition to lubricating the threads.
I've used grease on my lug studs for 30 years and have never failed a stud. I wipe off and wire brush the studs before I reassemble and what little residual grease remains in the nut itself is inconsequential.
Matt
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In which case the studs tend to give plenty of warning that the threads are stretching. Turning them on and off makes it immediately obvious that a stud is stretching. As Matt implies - there's no sudden death involved here.

As have I, on and off. I have never snapped a stud. If studs are suddenly snapping on a particular model car, I'd say there's some junk steel in those studs.
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OK, so work with me on this one Brian. Torque is torque. Torquing lugs to any setting is going to result in the same torque applied to the threads, whether they are lubed or dry. I could see where dry might present a small amount of additional resistance, but that would seem to be trivial compared to the resistance that the wheel presents. If all of these studs are snapping off of Hyunai's then I'd surely suggest the problem more lies with cheap steel in the studs, more than any problem presented by grease on the threads. I don't care what Hyundai says - of course they aren't going to say they have a problem with the studs. Lubricating studs has been a common practice for as long as the stud and lug nut have been around. Suddenly it's a problem?

This would point to a severe quality problem and not a problem of over torquing studs.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

That's true, but you've completely lost sight of the intent of torque settings, which is to create a specific amount of tension in the stud. It's an indirect setting - since there's no easy way to directly check the stud tension - and it relies on certain conditions in order to achieve the desired tension. The recommended torque settings are for clean, dry studs and nuts.
If the studs/nuts are rusty/corroded, the increased friction will result in the torque setting being reached before there is optimum tension in the stud. This is not ideal, but it's not typically going to cause a problem, since the increased friction also makes it less likely that a nut will loosen.
OTOH, if the studs/nuts are lubricated, the reduced friction results in the recommended torque setting not being reached until the tension in the stud is higher than desired. The result can be stretching and eventual failure of the stud. It is not always obvious when stretching occurs.
As for asking Hyundai, I didn't mean to ask them if stud failures are a problem, I meant ask them whether they recommend lubricating studs and lug nuts. I'm betting the answer will be to clean off any rust or corrosion and install them dry.
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Brian Nystrom wrote:

If you have any mechanical inclination at all, you can easily feel when a fastener yields. I've yielded a number of bolts in my day and you can easily feel when the movement continues with no additional resistance. It is a very sickening feeling... :-)

Yes, that is the recommendation of most manufacturers. This is far less ideal than using properly lubricated fasteners (note that virtually all other fasteners on a vehicle, particularly those in the engine and transmission, call for lubricated fasteners. However, it acknowledges the reality that you can't count on the typical gas station/Wal-Mart place to properly lubricate the studs. Thus they provide a higher torque value and specify dry fasteners. An oiled fastener will yield much more consistent torque values than will a dry fastener.
Matt
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