OT: Gas Prices Revisited :OT

switch grass makes FAR more alcky per acre than cord.. something like 4 times worth.

--Shiva--

How dare they change their ways and become 'good stewards'!

--I didn't say they'd changed their ways. I said they're following a fad. They're not reliable stewards: they move too often.

Just who do they think they are?

--That's easy; they obviously think they're God Almighty. I'm surprised you ask.

--YOUR communal nest, Californian. Looks like you need one more negative in that sentence, there. And it's five billion 'someone elses' who, by treaty, won't have any 'part' to 'do.' I should stop exhaling, while the two fastest-growing economies open new brown-coal pits. 'Cause I'm a big meanie.

Think I'll go turn all the lights in the house on.

--Yeah, spool up the company MiG while you're out there.

1950 Champion,1951 Starlight Coupe Custom,1953 Starlight Coupe,1954 Starlight Coupe R1/4-speed,1958 Silver Hawk,1960 Frua Italia Larks,1962 Lark VI, 1962 Lark Convertible,1963 Avanti R2 R4324,1963 Lark Daytona,1963 Lark Cruiser,1963 GT Hawk,1963 Daytona Wagonaire,1964 Cruiser,1954 3R11, 1956 2E7,1985 Jeep CJ-7,2004 Porsche Carrera 4S,2002 Ducati 996,2002 Jeep Overland:

None of these actually run, do they? You don't burn fuel in them and drive on the road? Just turn them over on air pressure generated by tidal turbines? "That's a much more satisfying way to look at it..."

already happened.. farmers bitching about the price of feed, so that drives chickens, turkeys, and beef prices up.. AND a shortage of feed is already present in some areas..

--Shiva--

thats NOT necessarily FOOD for human corn tho.. around me its HIGH. and not readily available.. part deau is the HUGE water requirements that an alcohol plant takes.. they are fighting one here that looking at 800 GPM, and thats a HUGE drain for the poor return..

an e85 car currently gets about 25% LESS MPG than a gas car.. its just a matter of the BTU available and NO amount of tweaking engines will change that.

--Shiva--

I heard that hemp oil could be a big source of fuel, if the government would let it be grown. Fuel from corn is losing proposition. Hopefully they will discover an economical way to get alchol from saw grass or other type of straw.

they wont.. the political buyers will see to that. --Shiva--

at $4 per, it costs them 4.2 to grow.. so they STILL arent getting fat..

someone figured out a box of cereal netted the farmer something like a nickle to him. its the MIDDLE MEN thats doing the screwing --Shiva--

Maybe for the smallest farms, but the big boys are raking in the money.

"Economic Information Bulletin No. (EIB7) 51 pp, February 2006

Corn production costs per bushel vary considerably among U.S. producers, depending on yields, farm location, tillage practices, irrigation, previous field usage, enterprise size, and weather. The operating and ownership costs per bushel for corn ranged from an average of $1.08 for the 25 percent of U.S. producers with the lowest costs to an average of $2.98 for the 25 percent with the highest costs"

snipped-for-privacy@notanywhere.net wrote:

There are numerous cheaper alternatives than corn. But none offer the profit to the entities supporting corn.

JT

While your conversion to corn may not be representative of all such conversions, it does point to another downside of corn for ethanol. That is, corn is now being planted where it is not a reliable, high yielding crop. This in turn brings up two more problems. First, greater chance of crop failure which will probably be paid for by crop insurance (can you say taxpayer hit?). Second, corn requires heavy fertilizing and the source of chemical fertilizers is largely petroleum. The cost of fertilizer for the land I own in Kansas has tripled in the past couple years. Paul Johnson

Well that maybe true for some soils , my hayfields have been planted heavily in red clover for ten years or so, of red clover fixes nitrogen in the soil which corn of course consumes.

Without proper crop rotation, heavy fertilization maybe required.

Paul Johns>> Hey Lee where ya been?

Santa has a carbon footprint problem with methane emissions.....

"Grumpy AuC> Gonna be quite a feat for Santa to put that lump of coal in your > stockin'... >

Wastrel? Good-Stewards? Communal nest?

Everyone must be identified and labeled.. Classification based on preferences, practices, and personal patterns...

It was bad enough to be tagged 'That Studebaker guy"... Just label me 'That Studebaker Asshole' and get it over with Jeff (Why waste time?..) Rice

"Pat Drnec" wrote...

"Raking in the money"... have you ever been on a farm of any size? The article is stating averages between a small family farm on the high end to a corporate farm on the low end. Corporate farming is illegal in many states. Besides, these "big boys of farming" are making pennies compared to what the "big boys of oil production" are making. I suspect the biggest complainers about this are the lobbiests for the oil industry.

What the article is stating the basic laws of economics and learned the first week of any entry-level economics course... of course the more land you farm the less it's going to cost you on a per acre/bushel average to grow a crop. Your half-million dollars worth of equipment you use to work 3 quarters of land can be better utilized and averaged out on your neighbor's farm who plants 30 quarters. Other than that, the cost of seed, fertilizer, diesel, labor, etc. are the same for both farms. Regardless of who farms an acre of land, only so much of one crop can be grown on it in a growing season.

The people who write these articles aren't farmers out in fields, they're pencil pushers in an office in Washington who wouldn't know a combine from a manure spreader.

Lee

Corporate farming is illegal in many states.

It's not hard to get started, just gather up your pile of money and start going to family farm auctions... they're held everywhere every week of the year in the midwest.

Lee

cost of using corn.

--That sure is true, though, to be fair, corn is a "proven" crop in much of N.America, while sugar cane grows only in the "subtropical" belt, and as a Caribbean/Brazilian import. As Global Climate Change progresses, we should be able to grow cane in Michigan...this will, of course, affect the price of rum. Makes you wonder why the plantations in Hawaii are all abandoned, while gas there is the most expensive in the country.

switch grass makes FAR more alcky per acre than cord.. something like 4 times worth.

--It's going to be hard to convince cash-crop farmers, family or megacorp, to replace money-looking row crops with what looks like marsh grass. Switchgrass would be useful if we really went on a campaign to harvest marginal areas, plant victory gardens, and roam the woods for artichokes...in other words, if there really were a crisis...

This hasn't come up yet: wildlife habitat. Someone in media has been ginning up the idea of deer overpopulation in certain east-of-the-Mississippi states; it appears to be related to a plan to plant corn 'fence-to-fence.' It took generations to convince farmers (and the govt.ag.agencies driving policy) to leave some land alone, for deer, elk, bird nesting, you-name-it; farmers have a natural suspicion of upswings in wildlife population, since they can literally count their losses. All it would take would be one good crisis campaign to wipe out 60 years of 'scientific' wildlife management, and most game hunting in the eastern US.

One more baby to be thrown out with the bath-water.

god forbid I should point out the obvious - every rational act that saves energy and pollutes less counts. If I take small steps to take better care of my immediate environment it does not follow that I must wear a hair shirt and live a completely 'green' lifestyle. It's common sense, or would it be ok for your neighbor to chuck his trash out the back door and turn the place into a garbage dump because, after all, there are people in 3rd world countries who do that, so why bother with proper disposal? That all-or-nothing attitude is what's wrong with politics today - a candidate can have good ideas, have done good things but once he is revealed as having any human failing the dogpile starts and everything positive counts for nothing. Of course, that's just my opinion, I claim entitlement to it and f*ck anybody who seems to think I have no right to it. If it gets somebody's panties in a wad they're welcome to killfile me and save the strain on their delicate sensibilities.

Jeff Rice wrote:

I was just trying to save you time .. As far as the problems with politics' today? You are spot on correct. It is an all out, all or nothing, no out of bounds, smear tactics, win any way you can, and screw the consequences.... as long as your guy wins attitude that is screwing this country up.. I never condemned anyone's efforts to individually do anything, or everything to save energy. What I did do is point out the shortcomings of my own feeble efforts, or lack thereof. And point out the human condition of espousing to an audience what they think everyone else should be doing. Reducing energy consumption is a personal thing, like saving money, or flossing your teeth. There are benefits for doing these things, and they are up to the individual. Those that partake, gain personal benefits. But they won't stop the world from spinning, or stop your neighbor from having bad breath. You did a good job of pointing out the obvious. And I also did a good job of pointing out a different view from a different perspective. Choosing where to stand to view the world does change your perspective. That's why I move around a lot, and look from a lot of different perches. There is no one single vista that offers you the whole panoramic view. You have to look far to the left, and far to the right. Jeff (and behind your back for the back stabbers, pickpockets, and boobirds...) Rice

"Pat Drnec" wrote...

quoted text -

$3.39 / gallon from the station "across the street" that's usually in the running for the cheapest in San Diego.

Karl (Who used to fill his Studebakers with gas @ .22 9/10 in the late sixties in Watertown Square, MA.)