Subaru known problems?

Having driven over a million miles in Subarus I can say the minor problems you mentioned are correct. Head gasket problems only plague certain engines/years and you can add automatic transmissions into that category. You missed the numerous oil leaks and water pump failures (leak). All in all if a Subaru fits the bill for what you need in a vehicle then they are hard to beat. Most of these things happen with such regularity they are easy to head off in advance and if you only drive 15,000 miles per year like most then what the hey. Also I have yet to find anything on a Subaru that wasn't too simple to fix myself and save a small fortune. TG

A week ago I was all set to trade my truck in on a Forester, but now I'm not sure. I'm am again looking at the 2001 Rav4 which I had ruled out before because it does not have the handling or power of the Forester. Basically I want the rally car with the SUV cago room. My 4 Runner is over 10 years old but it doens't leak any fluid, has never had a hiccup from the transmission, doesn't burn any oil or eat any bearings, so I will feel quite the fool if I trade it in on something 7 years newer that does some or all of those. I would keep the 4 runner if it was a little easier on gas and had AWD.

Is it really a $500-600 US job to put wheel bearings in an Impreze rear end? I guess I will just have to speak to more owners to find out their experience.

I'm no so much worried about head gasket failures as those incredibly expensive wheel bearings and the clutch. Here's an example of what concerns me:

Nothing here really impressed me. Dealerships are dealerships, regardless of brand. You're getting only one side of the story here, as well.

Posts here appear to be from Australia & New Zealand, and on MY99. AFAIK the wheel bearing and "clutch shudder" are applicable to models prior to 2002. I'd try and stick with a page dealing with models as imported in the market I'd be buying in ;-)

Steve

Thank you for that info, I'm going to ask a few local independent mechanics if they have experience replacing them. The nearest subaru dealer is a 3 hours highway drive from here where as the Toyota dealer is just down the street so this further complicates the decision for me.

I can only afford a 1999 or 2000, and I picked those two at radom but if you search on google for 2000 Forester Problems or Forester wheel bearings you get plenty from N/A too.

Mke sure they have the special Subaru tool for installing them or you will probably be doing again soon.

Chris,

The documented fix for repeated bearing failure is to repleace the ball bearings with roller bearings. Mine were going out approx every 7,000 miles. They were replaced with the rollers, and I have about 20,000 on them now - no problems. My shop (Pennsylvania) charged something like $220 to do the replacement.

Have you dropped a zero off those mileage numbers or something? There is no good reason for a modern passenger car in normal use to not get

100,000 miles off wheel bearings.

-- Bruce

"Chris Phillipo" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@news.eastlink.ca...

Chris, First suggestion: if I were 3 hours from a Subaru dealer, I would probably hesitate to go with Subaru for that reason alone. Maybe not justified in your case, but worth considering. I am still at this time pro-Subaru, and pro-Forester but read on: We have two 99 Foresters, both owned since new, one purchased Jan 99, the other July 99. We have 89,000 miles on the first one, and 78,000 miles on the second. I have just been through MUCH haggling with both the local Subaru dealership here in western part of Virginia and SOA concerning these bearing issues. Bottom line: _Apparently_, neither car has the problem. We thought one did, but it seems that the noise we were hearing and thought was a rear bearing (and which the dealership Subaru technician thought also) was not bearing related. We now think it may have been uneven tire wear in the rear making the noise, though a front to back tire rotation didn't initially seem to eliminate the noise (got new tires about 8,000 miles ago; the rears were wearing on the outside edges; I need to align again, I guess.) When the shop did put the car up on the rack and listen for noise (after I had rotated first, as suggested) they could hear nothing. I don't hear the noise anymore either, and have to admit I'm a bit baffled. Could have been oversensitivity on my part once I was sure I had a bearing problem (since the technician--a good tech, I believe-- thought so too after a test-drive with me.) In any case, I can say that Subaru of America is VERY hard to deal with concerning the bearing issue. They admit to nothing, they minimize the problem, and yet Subaru has gone to the trouble of designing a special tool for the express purpose of repairing these bearings ON THE CAR, saving repair time, and getting dealerships to buy this tool. NOTE, the time frame for changing this bearing is NOT NECESSARILY the

0.8 hours for one bearing and 1.5 hours for two bearings as Ed Hayes suggested. That time frame ONLY APPLIES IF some of the cost is being covered by Subaru, which according to SOA customer service person I dealt with, forces the whole repair to be covered at WARRANTY rates, where book rates are used. Many dealerships (maybe all?) will not use this rate for the wheel bearing repair because they say the time frame is actually much longer than allowed by warranty rate, and they will charge you whatever the ACTUAL time requires for this repair. They estimate 1.5 to 2 hours PER bearing (per side?) is reasonable, though it can take much longer if some of the parts are resistant to removal, like a long bolt that sometimes takes much difficulty to get it out. I investigated ALL of this in advance of letting anyone put my car on the lift to work on it. SOA was unwilling (flat out refused!) to let me meet with or talk with my regional representative about this problem. I could only call the CS reps and talk to them, and what it all boiled down to was that they wanted the dealership to confirm the problem first, and THEN they would talk to me about POSSIBLE coverage of PART of the repair. I used every point of leverage I could, including emphasizing that these are our first Subarus ever, and we very much want to continue to buy Foresters since they fit our needs so well, but I insisted these would be the LAST Subarus in our family if we end up eating rear bearing repair costs long before reasonable life expectations, or repeated repairs of same problem. I have read about both of these issues on this group and online, as have you. SOA is not going to admit to a problem, will minimize it, and will suggest it is normal to have some failures (true, but what we do not have access to is _how many_ are failing.) They assure us we should not expect to have recurring problems with them. In fact, as the CS rep told me, they are still today building these Foresters with the _ball bearings_, even in 2005 models. The rep told me he had ordered a 2005 for his mother, and had no lack of confidence in the ball bearings on these cars. (Good for him!) I'm uneasy about it, myself. I'm still stuck on the fence about the issue. We might have been ready to buy new Foresters before long (ours are running wonderfully well, though, so only desires for additional features would push us that direction, and we might well wait several years depending on how ours keep holding up.) I now will not even consider new Foresters until I am satisfied that this problem has been blown out of proportion (it may indeed) and that the newer models are NOT having any occurrences of failed wheel bearings. No wheel bearings should be failing at the 30 and 40 and 50 thousand mile points as have sometimes been reported. Nor should they be failing within 3-10K after being repaired, as has also been reported. Any auto manufacturer tolerating these numbers is headed for bad times, in my opinion. I sure hope SOA doesn't go that route; they do make fine cars, I'm convinced. I do not know where one can lay hands on the actual numbers of problems, however, and so I have had to base all my conclusions on the circumstantial evidence available: There are many reports of problems online; there IS a special tool designed just for this repair, so it has to be happening enough to justify the existence of the tool; SOA HAS covered PART of many repairs under warranty terms long after the warranty expired; the fix uses roller bearings rather than ball bearings. (IN FAIRNESS ON THIS ISSUE: the SOA CS reps have told me that the reason for this is that the ball type bearing cannot be changed ON THE CAR, only the roller type will work with the specially designed tool. He insisted that there is no inherent weakness or underbuilt aspect to the ball bearings, and the fact that they are still the standard bearing put in the current cars says it is sufficient for the loads encountered by the vehicle. I can't argue with that, since I have not enough knowledge of the various concerns involved with switching to roller type bearings in new manufactured Foresters. Maybe it is needed, maybe not. Time will tell on that one.) This is a long post, but I think I have been around the issue from enough angles to say that the only conclusion _I_ can come to is, KEEP WATCHING. Maybe _we_ will never have the problem on either Forester. Maybe we already have it on both but it isn't bad enough to warrant detection or repair yet. For now, we're going to keep driving, and yes, keep enjoying our Foresters. Good luck to you on whatever you choose to buy. PS. The Forester handles beautifully, has plenty of power for fast highway speeds, and is very functional for active lifestyles, and in my opinion, are good looking vehicles. I personally PREFER the smaller size of a mini-SUV. (I think the bigger SUVs are rather excessive for many folks, unless they truly have enough passengers in normal use, or usually haul heavy loads to justify their higher fuel consumption.)

There were ball bearings in there? No wonder they fail. I wonder why they did that.

oversensitivity

technician--a

circumstantial

Interesting, Ed. That means there ARE some Foresters that got roller bearings at the factory? Hmmm. The CS guy I talked to either 1. did not know that, or 2. possibly just felt it was better not to muddy the waters with it, if in fact they went to rollers, then stopped with rollers and went back to ball bearings. That would be as much as admitting guilt, IMO. He claimed all Foresters are "still manufactured with ball bearings." If what you said is correct, his statement would not be a complete lie, but would be less than the complete truth, IMO.

Makes sense to me too. That fact alone, if Subaru would admit to it and take full responsibility when problems arise, would go a LONG way in satisfying me about Subaru's integrity. I suggest that they have hurt themselves greatly by NOT coming clean about this issue, but rather have minimized it enough that I find it hard to trust their word at this point. If in fact they only THOUGHT it might have been a carrier damage issue, but later found out otherwise, I recognize that might leave them guessing again, and maybe they haven't gotten a handle on the WHY yet. However, that would only make we wonder _even more_ as to whether I could trust buying another Forester when the time comes. Failure to come clean about this issue is the real bottom line that is hurting them. I personally believe they know what the problem was by now, and have decided it's too costly to admit to whatever the truth is, for one reason or maybe many. But my conscience has to rule my behavior, and even if it costs me personally, I need to take responsibility for my errors. I'm trying my best to do that. I hope Subaru does the same.

I agree totally, Ed. Let's hope we both got Foresters without the damaged carriers. More than that, let's hope this problem has seen its day and been addressed successfully, for the benefit of ALL future Forester owners. I sure _hope_ to be in that category for a long time.

Thank you for that info, I think you are right, the proximity of a dealership and indeed any experience qualitfied Subuaru mechanic is going to have to be the desciding issue for me. I went back to speak to a couple of people I met with Foresters that told me what needed repairing in the last 4 years and at the time neither mentioned needing wheel bearings or a clutch, but now that I ask specifically, one does here a noise from the rear end (he has an automatic) and the other with a manual says the clutch does slip when cold! I initially liked the idea of having a car very few people have in this area but I guess I will have to leave that to people with greater funds than I for now.

In our market Subaru is considered most reliable. The best indication is that they outlast many other cars and there are many 20+ years old Subaru's on the road. Many of them are driven in a very hard environment. If there are specific problems they are usually solved at low cost since spare part for old Subies are cheap here.

I hope the current models will be the same in reliability...

Many people told me I would be better off buying one of the old ones than a new one. Maybe that 20% of GM'ness in there now has introduced

20% of American car reliability? :)