Use of Anti Seize on Vehicle Lug Nuts

(snip)

Why go to the extra expense, and difficulty of clean application, of using anti-sieze? Get a can of light machine oil,

3-in-one oil, etc, and apply a little bit to each stud every time the wheel is removed. Tires need to be rotated on some sort of regular schedule, anyway, so things should never remain undisturbed long enough to rust that badly.

I see nothing wrong with it. I've seen it speced for spark plugs and no mention made of reducing the torque spec. Years ago, before I knew better, I had a car where the lug nuts were a pain to get off and I was doing my own tire rotations and everything by hand (no power tools). to make life easier I put oil on the lug nuts and never had any problems with them coming loose. then I read that you shouldn't do that and haven't since. But I would use anti-seize if there seemed to be a need. out here in AZ it's not so much of a problem as back east.

Also, Discount tire, one of the major chains out here, does use an actual torque wrench on every lug nut. I think Costco does also.

Pep Boys used to, but no more.

I always retorque in the parking lot. I also check the air pressure because once in a great while the garage forgets to release air after putting in 50 PSI to seat the tires.

Discount Tire, bless their hearts, DONT use a torque wrench here. They use those bloody Torq Stix, and they are inadequate in my experience. (They warped two sets of rotors for me).

The last time I went into Discount Tire, about 3 weeks ago, I asked them to use a torque wrench on my tires, and they happily agreed, warning me it might take a little longer. Whole process took 10 minutes...time well spent.

No, but what is "properly torqued?" You see, the recommended torque from the manufacturer assumes dry nuts. If you use anti-seize the amount of "proper torque" is different, and you don't really know what it is.

Not if it is "properly torqued."

Right, this is a problem.

A lot of shops do this. I won't let those shops touch my tires. Most of the chain places use those things and frankly I'll pay a little more to go to a careful and competent shop rather than risk having my rotors bent.

You mean like making them out of a high-shear-strength stainless steel?

--scott

This is another reason I can think of to apply

We agree on most points, Scott. Stainless steel can be a pain in some cases, because wet salt (the chloride) causes chloride cracking in stainless steels. Also, many are subject to spalling, which can destroy threads. Use of antiseize compounds can be important with these steels. Sometimes the threads have to be cut slightly differently in order for them to hold up better. (like a half degree difference in thread cut)

The best way I know to measure the actual clamping force, and therefore the tension on the bolt is by the use of an elongation gauge. It would be a simple matter to run studies on a particular type of bolt with this tool. I may do this sometime with a jig setup using a dial indicator and torque wrench.

I agree that use of antiseize does not cause loosening if the bolt is in good shape and is torqued properly, NOR does the Chrysler technique of alternating thread directions on different sides of the car help at all. It cured a problem that didnt exist.

I have used antiseize on lugnuts for many years in winter salting conditions and never, never had any sort of problem.

I've seen quite a few tire shops where their "techs" had no clue about hub piloted wheels, torquing sequences or torque wrenches.

I did get tires at a NTB once where I got a real tech. He actually made sure the wheels were seated properly on the hubs (a shop put them on crooked once), he used a torque stick with the torque wrench set to it's lowest setting to get all the lug nuts (8 lug wheels) lightly seated in the proper sequence, and then went around with a torque wrench torquing them to the final 140 ft-lb again in the proper sequence. I was pretty amazed, gave him a $20 tip too since I didn't have to redo it all myself

2 miles down the road...

Probably money well tipped!

I usually hear "No, man, we aint got no stinking torque wrench!"

If I am force into it, I take my own torque wrench to the tire store.

Not really. At the factory the studs and nuts have a light oil film on them. The idea behind using anti-sieze is to preserve the like new condition of the threads. If you live where there is lots of rain, snow and road salt without anti-sieze the condition of the threads will deviate more from their original condition than with the use of anti-sieze.

-jim

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Remember also to put some sort of corrosion protection (eg oil) on the thread that holds the spare tyre in the cage under the boot/trunk (if yours is that sort of spare).

I once got a flat tyre and spent ages trying to undo the spare because the nut attached to the cage had rusted onto the thread of the long bolt that went down through the floor of the boot. Because this bolt has a single wide diametric groove cut in it (like a very big screw head) rather than a proper hexagonal head like a wheel nut, it is very difficult to get any purchase on the bolt when using the flattened end of the wheelbrace as a "screwdriver" (which is the way you are supposed to do it).

Eventually after about half an hour of cursing and swearing, I had to call out the RAC roadside rescue. Together we eventually managed to shift the thing, with me perched in the boot sitting on the wheelbrace to keep it in the head of the bolt and the RAC man applying as much force as he could.

Needless to say, as soon as we got the spare wheel out, I removed the bolt entirely, went over it with sandpaper and chased out the thread with a screwdriver and coated it liberally with grease. I now loosen the spare wheel cage every few weeks to check that it is still free-running.

I'm surprised that people have so much problem getting tyre repair shops to torque the wheel nuts correctly. Although most shops use pneumatic wrenches, the ones I use all seem to be scrupulous about looking up the correct torque for the car in a table and setting the point at which the wrench will slip. I've never yet had a wheel nut which I can't remove myself with a wheelbrace, especially my big "octopus" one which has four arms so you can hold the one opposite the wheel nut in your hand as a pivot and then put your foot on one at right angles to tighten/untighten the nut.

"proper torque" probably has a much bigger tolerance (reality instead of printed) than anti-seize's effect.

A lot of shops use air powered impact wrenches, which can be -sometimes- roughly set for torque. Usually, they are not set at all, at least in this neck of the woods.. "Goober" just hammers the nuts on the lugs. And that is bad mechaniking.

Even the use of Torq Stix (a torque limiting device between the impact wrench and the socket) doesnt cure the problem. And there are reasons why this is so.

In short, if the shop had a really high tech wrench and kept it roughly calibrated, then it should be okay. Most of the shops here in "Dogpatch" dont have that.

Our current car specs 76 lb-ft for the lug nuts. If I used grease, I would derate

15-20% and use 60-65 lb-ft. No sweat.

See:

>

I thought we quit doing that in the 60s. :)

May have. My 97 Dodge van does not do this.. Point is, it was not needed and not effective even when it was done.

To heck with bent rotors!

My car started making a funny noise a few days after having the tires changed. Instead of doing the right thing and checking them with a lug wrench, I 'eyeballed' them and checked them by hand.

The next day a wheel came off and almost bounced over a bridge railing into a river (my loss; better than on an overpass).

I contacted the tire place, they paid for a rental and paid to fix the small amount of damage to my car.

NOW this place uses a real torque wrench when replacing tires.

I haven't had any problems, but since doing it I check the torque periodically.

Instead of doing the right thing and checking them with a lug

I find this statement a little confusing. Do you mean that you just looked at them, and checked each with your bare fingers?

A seasoned mechanic can often get amazingly close to torque values just using his sense of feel. Engines used to be assembled at the factory with nothing more than a socket wrench on a breakover bar, and the sensitive hands of the mechanic. (Of course, the engines in those days did not last as long as they do now).

But, a real torque wrench is the best way to go, IMO.

I use a heavy duty 4 way lug wrench.I also keep a heavy four feet long cheater pipe in my van for when the tire shops put the wheels on there too tight.I have never used Anti-Seize on anything before. cuhulin