Toyota Dealer Ripped me off

If the most money you have ever been ripped off for by a car dealer is $62.95, then you are way ahead of 99.9% of the population.

Also, you have learned a valuable lesson that you need to do your research before you talk to an auto dealer or repair shop. That lesson will save you a lot more than $62.95 over your lifetime.

What you say is true BUT, if everyone who was ripped said that then just imagine the money the less than forthcoming dealers would make...If you can live without the help of that particular dealer then I suggest that you send them a letter (along with a copy of your bill showing the 'repair') saying that you fully intend complaining to the BBB about this unless you receive a letter of apology from the dealership owner(s)

A CC to the Toyota Customer Service Dept wouldn't hurt either.

There are ripoffs worth fighting, and this was neither a ripoff or worth fighting.

Metal particles circulate in the gear oil and the extreme pressure additives do break down from heat and shearing. Perhaps it isn't enough to cause premature wear, but a change might help with smoother shifting and quieter operation. As Martha Stewart would say, "It's a good thing."

Replacing drive belts or hoses isn't part of any manufacturer's recommended maintenance, but is commonly done by dealers and independent mechanics as a preventative measure. I'd only wish that was done before my upper rad hose burst.

Of course it's a rip off and is also worth fighting...the dealer said that it was required at the 60k check...it indeed was NOT!...christ, using your definition every consumable should be changed as 'preventative maint.'. Just as you mentioned about the rad hose, everyone can mention SOME item that he wishes that thay had changed...sure as hell doesn't mean that 'everything' should be changed!...the bloody dealer LIED...he should be held accountable. I seldom bitch but it pisses me off royally when a dealer lies.

....aaand, what you say about 'drive belts and hoses' isn't true either...on almost every check there's items like "hoses and belts for condition and leaks" etc, right?...some belts are lifed items too (timing belts?)...gee...

Looked up more stuff. Here's Oakville Toyota of Oakville, ON. They have their dealer recommended services on their website for

"Replace Manual Transmission Fluid" is specified for every 36 months or 48K km. That a dealer would do a reasonable service beyond the manufacturer's own (marketing driven) schedule should be applauded.

The warranty manual for my dad's '96 Buick Regal doesn't mention that brake fluid ever has to be replaced. Now there's a disaster waiting to happen.

I really don't understand your thinking here sir...it sounds to me as if you think it's a wonderful thing that the dealer is doing when he tries to 'super-size his customers'.

Here the manufacturer has determined through very expensive and extensive testing that a certain level of service is required for optimum operation of his product, and some dealership thinks 'hell, I can make more money if I sell my customers some super-size, never mind that the manufacturer think it's unnecessary.'

Now, why do you applaud the dealer?...Personally I put a lot more faith in the manufacturer's recommendations than some dealer's.

He has a helluva lot more to lose than some random dealer.

You are wrong about the manufacturers. They don't conduct "through very expensive and extensive testing that a certain level of service is required" to determine maintenance schedules.

Warranties are always a marketing expense, and the marketing folks have to balance three basic things:

- Warranty expense paid to dealers to fix problems (based on statistical data),

- Consumer confidence with reliability (like reported by Consumer Reports), and

- Competitive forces of other car manufacturers regarding the cost of ownership for a car.

The last 2 considerations are especially important because they are used by consumers to decide which car to purchase. If a manufacturer requires more maintenance than a competitor, every single salesman of the competitor will point that out to potential customers. Every single one of them. So there is strong pressure to reduce owner maintenance requirements, even if the car does not last quite as long.

In my life I have bought 9 new cars for myself and helped family members buy 6 others (brands include Audi, Honda, Ford, VW, Mazda, Nissan, Mercury, Plymouth, Toyota, Saturn). I have never once had a salesman mention service intervals or cost of service before the sale. After the sale, I did have one Saturn salesman tell me to ignore the oil change indicator in my new Saturn and have them (the dealer) change the oil every 3000 miles. In fact, this particular dealer had a display engine in the show room illustrating the horrors of not changing your oil regulalrly (their "regulalrly that it).

Ed

You don't hear too well, do ya?

The reason that the dealer sales people don't mention cost of maintenance is that the marketing people at all the car manufacturer's, in response to competitive pressures, offer the same (or very close to the same) maintenance schedules. When I say the same, I mean if the cars being compared by the consumer are considered to be a competitive threat, such as Toyota Camry, Honda Accord, Nissan Maxima, etc. So what I said is that if one car had a competitive advantage in scheduled maintenance, the sales people would mention it if they thought you might be considering another brand. If you already made up your mind about buying a particular car, and just wanted to negotiate price, then obviously they might not bother to mention it. However the manufacturer might mention it in their marketing campaigns.

Regarding the recommendation of the dealer after the sale, they are in business to make money, and the more frequently you bring in your car for maintenance, the more money they make. But I don't want to discuss the wisdom of 3000 mile oil changes in this thread, because it has been beat to death previously.

It is always a delicate balance between what is said by the dealer before the sale, and after the sale. Also, the interests of the manufacturer and dealer, while often the same, are not always identical.

maintenance is

marketing

When I was in the market for a newer car in the mid-90's, I decided to give the Saturn dealer a try. Man did they keep on harping on how their timing chains didn't need replacement compared to the competition from Honda or Toyota. They had big displays set up and the salesman repeatedly brought it up. Manufacturer's ads now tout 60/90/100K mile "tune-ups".

Also - my mechanic seems to think fleet buyers who usually run a minimal maintenance schedule like it to keep costs down while "following the manufacturer's maintenance requirements".