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diesel

No worries

I have no idea why sales continue if they are talking about tiered enforcement, they go ahead and allow sales of new vehicles. Seems like a classic case of government setting up even another possible class-action suit! Then again, now more then ever there's a disconnect in agencies that as a norm seem to write regs that contradict other existing regs. I just don;t get it, this neglect of the rights of the citizen. We talked of the "stakeholder's" input but that does not include Joe Citizen the taxpayer. Don't you think that's wrong? I do. Maybe that's why I was canned?

Anyway, trucking firms, plant operators and shipping all are involved in the rule-making wherever that's going, but in the end, that excludes the citizen.

Diesel engined, non-commercial cars and trucks account for somewhere around

9-11% of the vehicles on the road (DOT, EPA). Thinking about it, that is a large group of high-then-normal emissions group that seems appropriate for changes. In my opinion, responsible government means a fully informed citizenry who can make informed decisions on acquisition. I also think that beofre action is taken there should be in place alternative fuel availability but this does mean stepping on the toes of one of the strongest lobbying groups in Washington, if not in the Presidential Office itself. Is that fair that alternative diesel fuels are in place ? I think so. But again, I was canned 5 years ago by the son of the guy who appointed me to the position. Actually, it was George Sununu who tapped me for the position. Alas, old history.

BTW: I have not much time right now to go on about bio-diesel. I've been asked to join a group of other used to look into recent events. But why bio-diesel derived fuels are relatively benign is for several reasons:

  1. feedstock. Crude oil feedstock diesel contains many hundreds of common hydrocarbon chenicals, many are truly nasty. Bio-diesel contains only a few. Those other compounds are what cause the toxicity issues.
  2. bio-diesel is really like a light cooking oil, essentially the same saturated hydrocarbons without all those hundreds of othewr compounds being formed.
  3. diesels all produce particualtes-soot. Bio-diesel derived from the thermal anaerobic decomposition plant in Alabama (Tyson Foods) tested by the API found 17% less soot generation (by weight). I'm not so sure that the test protocol was done in a statistically sound manner, but there you go; 17% reduction (by weight).
  4. spills of bio-diesel would be messy like spills tend to be, but the toxicity is very low, it's edible. Fish toxicity is, of course, higher since the EPA test means covering the water surface which inhibits oxygen exhange between the atmosphere and the water. The fat-head minnows can use up the dissolved oxygen within the 72 hours the standardized test runs for.
  5. ealry in my career I did after-hour emergency response. Gas spills are scary, high vapor pressure and things like BLEVEs, etc. Diesel on the other hand has a high flash-point, around 180 degrees F. Stuff spills and even on the hottest days on asphalt, it doesn't want to burn (except when you're standing in the middle of it). I think in the big picture, I'd rather have bio-diesel engines then gas, soots versus NOX and VOCs, but what do I know?

More later on bio-diesel

Reply to
1 of the Masses
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Most of the newer light and heavy trucks have a lot of electronics. By doing this they are able to run quieter, more power, get better fuel mileage as well as meet the newer emissions requirements. Like the gas vehicles the transmissions and body computers are tied to engine computers for a better output. We've got quite a few diesels in our fleet, mostly Ford in light trucks (F250's to F450's) with 7.3L and the new 6.0L diesels and Freightliner with Cat's in the heavy trucks. We have some of the older Ford 7.3L direct injection's and they are running good, also some of the older GM 6.0L (early to mid 90's) and have had a fair amount of head gasket and head bolt failures. I've been told this is typical of the older models but the newer ones are a lot better. We seldom have a problem with electronics in the diesels, usually it's mechanical problems when they approach 300k but in all fairness our trucks get driven hard and are not maintained properly so they would probably act better if they were. davidj92

Reply to
davidj92

Andrew

Basically, it's like this: bio-diesel is a more intensive process that produces a "crude" that lends itself to easier/cheaper/"cleaner" processing to the final product. Key point is this: bio-diesel just doesn't have the hundreds of complex hydrocarbons to start with. Crude oil is just nasty stuff (though there are some paraffin crudes that are unbelievably sweet in more ways then what "sweet" means in the petro biz. The best sweet paraffins come from Libya (honey crude). BTW: If you get into following the petro biz you'll also hear about crude oil "blends." This is a way to up the value of a crude.

About PM5: the particulate does not enter the bloodstream, just the soluble "load," that is, the gunk on the particulate which either absorbs, adsorbs or causes some biochemical interaction. Entering the bloodstream isn't the only effect. For PM10, this tend to remain in the aveolar sac causing effects from both the mechanical contact and the slower interaction of the particulate's chemnical make-up to the lung tissue. PM5 tends to come and go, though with hydrocarbon particulates, the evidence is that these actually remain behind, too. Again, the products of combustion are myriad.

Before I forget, refining crude into diesel is at best, crude. To subject the crude to the processes needed to refine to a higher degree of "purity" (a term I use very loosely), requires a huge investment of money. For instance, just distilling to a range of carbon with contaminants would require construction of huge distillation columns where a more precise fraction is possible. Then there's the numerous additional processes required. There's just a limited amount of refinery space and process time with making a gallon cost something so high as to kill the market. As an analogy. It's cheaper to make steel from steel scrap then from iron ore. So the same is true in refining a specific target carbon fraction from a feedstock that limits the possible hydrocarbons to around 110-140 possile chemicals versus the thousands from a napthene based crude. Refiners make "diesel" which is really a carbon fraction with a specific carbon "weight" and flashpoint, not from what is actually in it. In fact, "disel" varies from batch to batch, and fron the crude in which it is derived from, and from the process time.

I hope I'm not sounding negative aboput petrochemistry, I confess I have a deep and passionate interest in the whole affair. Environmentally, we must do something about global warming or it will do something to us as entities on the closed environment that this planet is. But I don't see this as anywhere the threat as human population is truly is. That said, the oil is still there and is mightily useful for a myriad of products. Geologically, vast hydrocarbon emissions have occurred in the past that have tremendously affected lifeforms, from methane hydrates that have released from intense subsea volcanism and bolide impacts, to the huge release of natural gas from the "redrocks" within the US. Why not capture it and use it? While I'm at it, I should also say I consult for BP from time to time and have consulted for ExxonMobil. I have an interest is decarbonizing natural gas, reinjecting the carbon into formation for storage.

Remind me to chat about our solar and fuel celled boat and electric home sometime.

Reply to
1 of the Masses

I test drove a diesel Liberty about 4 months ago in Alabama. Seemed ok, but I felt the mileage was ridiculus for the size of the vehicle.

Reply to
JTurner

| > Jeep was rumored to have a diesel in the works for their new Liberty. | >

| > With the higher price of diesel fuel, they may not be offered | >

| | | | I test drove a diesel Liberty about 4 months ago in Alabama. Seemed ok, but | I felt the mileage was ridiculus for the size of the vehicle. |

How bad is/was it? What about performance?

Reply to
Jarhead

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