at which RPM should i shift my MT to increase synchro life?

In most scenarios the person behind you is not your main responsibility. If they rear-end you, it's their fault. You should not compromise your attention on the traffic and drivers in front of you so as to look out for the guy behind you.

I didn't say optimal braking, I said optimal stopping time which is only a single factor in optimal braking.

Well, now at least your agreeing with me that such a tradeoff exists.

Hey, you were talking about a high gear stall sacrificing safety, but a high gear stall is going to occur around 30Mph, now your talking about under 30Mph. You can't flip-flop like this.

Plainly your dragging now in yet another factor, safety, and attempting to use it as sole justification for engine braking.

Who said to stay in high gear? You still downshift during braking that happens under the 4th gear stall point, you just keep the clutch disengaged. If you need to jump out of there fast you can let in the clutch the same time you press the accellerator. Same reaction time as if your engine braking, in fact probably better since you can feather in the clutch so the engine goes to high RPM faster than if it's fully coupled.

Anyway, once again, the guy behind you is not your primary responsibility to look out for. I'll bet that if you ask any competent driving instructor or driving school, they well tell you that modifying your driving to so as to pay this much attention to the guy behind you as your recommending is not safe and not recommended.

So now we are braking and turning at the same time? Is turning a typical maneuver during a braking action? I would argue that you shouldn't be braking during a turn at an intersection in just about all circumstances. (not to say that I never do this, of course, but I know at least that it's unsafe) As for a turn on, say a curvy road, that should be done by engine braking alone I think, otherwise your speeding.

Well, for example my car, and many econoboxes like it. I can't speak for all cars because I have not driven or owned all cars. I might ask you, which cars have strong clutches? In short, what is the point of this question?

Why are you so dependent on testimonial vs using your brain to figure things out? Any driving school that gives you a one-size-fits-all solution for every problem is composed of idiots. If the person at the school has any experience in response to that question they are going to ask "what are the circumstances of the particular stop, the best way to stop a standard shift car is dependent on many factors that change for every stop"

And the answer - it's what this discussion has been attempting to illuminate. In short, the best way to stop in any given situation must be determined by the driver weighing many factors specific to that situation. The difference between us is that I give far less credence to engine braking in all gears and this throttle blipping stuff than you do, in weighing those factors.

Yes, I know that one-size-fits-all answers are easy for the masses to swallow. They don't have to think. If thinking is difficult for you, then a one-size-fits-all answer to this stopping question is probably all you can handle. I thought differently of you but obviously I was wrong.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt
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Even I said you can't do this in heavy traffic, go back and re-read my post. The line was:

"...Only during panic stops or commuting in heavy traffic should you be using the brakes hard..."

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

The method that I suggested is not considered proper by any driving school, if only on the basis that I do not set the car in 1st till after I have stopped, and then I sit with my foot on the brake pedal and clutch depressed.. but I have been doing the same for over thirty years now and unlikely to change habits.. I also keep my hand on the stick so that I am ready to either downshift quickly to assist braking or upshift to take on the challenge of who gets to the next set of lights first.. lol.. I pride myself on never holding up traffic because of some silly practices taught at the very beginning of my driving career.. I might also add that I have never suffered a worn out clutch or broken synchros..

And yes, Bill.. the noise of engine brakes is more than ppl in cities and villages can stand..

-- History is > > Truckers downshift in cities because they need to keep control and because

Reply to
Mike Hall

All traffic that has the potential to kill me is my main responsbility.

I never said there wasn't a trade-off. You seem to have a hard time reading what I write.

I never said anything about a "stall." I said you wouldn't have much capacity to accelerate once you get less than about 30 MPH, depending on what kind of car you drive obviously.

I believe you said you stay in high gear until you are at a very slow speed.

Most will tell you that you should maintain situational awareness at all times ... and this includes what is going on in your mirrors as well as windshield.

Read it again. I never said anything about braking in a turn. I said I wanted to always be in a gear that allows me to accelerate at any time I might need to, and this might include while being in a turn, but I was thinking more of the case of aborting the turn and deciding to go straight because of some obstacle or a car running a red light, etc. I take back my recommendation for you to call a driving school, you need a reading comprehension class more urgently.

I don't know why you brought up the point of weak clutches. My last three standard shift vehicles were: 1979 Chevette, 1985 Jeep Comanche, and the 1994 Chevy K1500 that I still own. The Chevette had the original clutch when totaled at 145,000 miles. The Comanche is owned by my father-in-law and has about 150,000 still on the original clutch. The K1500 has only 83,000 but going strong on the original clutch. I guess I've never had a "weak clutch" vehicle. Maybe the Japanese econboxes aren't as robust.

I'm not saying there aren't any cars with undersized clutches, but I think most "weak" clutches are really "weak" driver problems.

Because your brain seems unable to figure things out from logic alone. I thought maye some expert opinions would be enough to correct your thinking. Apparently you enjoy your ignorance too much to do a little research.

If you are so confident what they will say, why not risk a phone call or two?

It is clear that you do, and it is also clear to most people proficient at driving standard shift vehicles, be they cars or motorcycles or trucks, that you are wrong.

I never said one size fits all. I posted a short time ago three quite different scenarios and what might be reasonable approaches. If you were as intent on learning something as you are on trying to twist the words of others to fit your current erroneous beliefs, you'd be much better off.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

I tend to sit at long lights with my transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged so as to minimize wear on the throw-out bearing. However, I don't do this unless there is either nobody behind me or at last two cars behind me. If I think I may have to try to get out of the way of someone who doesn't see me or the red light, I will sit in first gear with the clutch depressed.

I've never suffered a worn out clutch or transmission either, nor a worn out throw-out bearing. Then again, I've never accumulated more than

150,000 miles on a standard shift street vehicle, but I put well over 300K on an OTR tractor on the original clutch and tranny.

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

No, I never said that unless you define 30Mph as a slow speed. I said that as you approach a stop, don't disengage the clutch and race the engine so you can shift down then reengage the clutch. Instead, if your in a situation where you are going to use engine braking, take your foot of the gas and leave it in high gear until you approach engine stalling. Not many cars on the road will let you go below 30 in 4th gear without the engine stalling.

Yes, obviously. But the question isn't whether you are maintaining situational awareness, it's whether your changing things you do on account of the guy behind you. In most situations you should be making driving decisions based on what is in front of you that your going to be driving into, not what is behind you that your going to be driving away from.

Where this applies to braking is that you should brake according to what you see in front of you that you need to stop for, you should not brake to make things easier for the guy behind you.

You may have posted 3 or even more different braking scenarios. But your answers for all of them were the same - use engine braking in all gears and throttle blipping. That is a one size fits all solution.

Now, if your reversing yourself and saying that engine braking and throttle blipping isn't the answer in all scenarios - then I have actually accomplished something here.

Ted

Reply to
Ted Mittelstaedt

Yes, I consider 30 MPH a slow speed for high gear in all but a few very high powered vehicles. Slowing to near engine stall speed in high gear is bad practice.

I change all sorts of things I do in response to the driving situation, be that other drivers or road conditions. That is a sign of a good driver, not a poor one. I base decisions on all that is around me, not just what is in front of me.

Baloney. Do you actually think about what you are writing?

Read it again. I didn't propose that for an emergency stop.

If I'd ever said that, then you would have accomplished something. I didn't and you haven't. Have you signed up yet for that reading comprehension class?

Matt

Reply to
Matthew S. Whiting

Reply to
Edward Hayes

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