Camshaft and Crankshaft Sensors?

It is not about what they charge but what they know more or less. All of the test equipment in the world will not help unless they know how to use it. Here is what to ask for or look for when going to a shop for repair. And also keep in mind a bad PCM will do all kinds of things like yours to. Good luck And let us know how it goes. MT

Tip on going to the dealer Ask that only a factory certified gasoline engine performance specialist work on your car. Not all dealerships are concerned with how repairs are dispatched, and not all dealership techs bother to take advantage of the training offered by factory (the vast majority of which is paid training). If the dealer is uncooperative, ask for your money back and call around for a dealer that will accommodate you.

Or tips on finding a good repair shop. Check around Ask around Word of mouth. Family friends coworkers neighbors business people and delivery people. Mailmen and parcel delivery people get around and notice a lot of stuff. Even a good parts house knows what shops are good and not good. Chamber of commerce and better business bureau and city hall. If you find a good referral to a repair shop go look them over and talk to them. Look for a clean looking busy place with nice people running it. Ask a few questions and ask about their qualifications and training. Not all places have trained tech/mechanics. If they do not find a place that does. Even all dealers do not have all trained techs/mechanics.

The dealership had the vehicle for less than 45 minutes, called me and said it was bank 2 upstream O2 sensor (which I already knew, but didn't think could cause the vehicle to stumble) and there was also a restriction on fluid on the fuel filter which triggered a code for "fuel efficiency flow".

They are replacing the O2 sensor and the fuel filter.

The symptoms only appear after the vehicle is warmed up, so I doubt that is the fuel filter, therefore it must be the O2 sensor. I've had a couple of mechanics tell me they doubt the O2 sensor could stall out the vehicle.

Thoughts?

Well what was the code no?

I didn't get specific code numbers. I'm more than a little leery about "restriction on fluid on the fuel filter which triggered a code for fuel efficiency flow". I'll ask for the codes when I pick up the vehicle.

That one does sound like a strange deal.:rofl: Usually it takes a fuel pressure gauge or a good scanner data read out to spot fuel pressure problems. However a 02 sensor could give you engine running fits. Cry pcm and engine running are very sensitive to bad sensors. I have saw a bad speed sensor kill a engine on the road.

Ask for the code no and post it back and also ask them for any TSB"s that may pertain to your problem. There may be several TSB's on it. What brand of fuel and what octane are you using in it? Have you ran a lot of injector cleaner or gas additive in it?

I would get the 02 sensor problem fixed first.

Did you ask for a trained tech or did they just let the grease monkey test it out? Tip on going to the dealer Ask that only a factory certified gasoline engine performance specialist work on your car. Not all dealerships are concerned with how repairs are dispatched, and not all dealership techs bother to take advantage of the training offered by factory (the vast majority of which is paid training). If the dealer is uncooperative, ask for your money back and call around for a dealer that will accommodate you.

OK, I'll ask.

Citgo regular 87 octane.

No, although the first time the symptoms happened it sounded like water in the gas to me, so I added a pint of Isopropyl Heet to the almost full tank. Otherwise no other additives.

It's being done, or should be done by now. They were supposed to call me when it was ready to be picked up, but haven't heard yet.

I asked them, "How will I know that it's fixed for sure?" Service Writer: "Eric will give it a test drive, then I will give it a test drive. We'll call you when we're satisfied it's repaired. And there is a 12 month warranty on parts."

LOL. I asked for the diagnostic guru. Here's the exchange when I called the service department:

Dodge person: "Service Department. What kind of work may we do for you?"

Me: "Miracle work."

Dodge person: . "Describe your problem."

After describing the problem I asked them who was the expert in diagnostics and engine drivability problems and they told me Eric. Before I left to bring in the vehicle this morning I called the service department and said, "I understand that Eric is the man for tracking down mysterious engine behavior. Is he working today?" They said he was working so I brought the car in.

Well it sounds like they are trying to get it fixed but time will tell. Let us know how it goes.

Yep, trying would be the word.

I asked for the specific code numbers. The service manager summoned Eric who said there aren't any specific code numbers, the computer gives readouts like "O2 sensor bad, replace O2 sensor".

Me: "What about TSBs?"

Eric: "I didn't consult any because the diagnosis was specific."

Me: "How do we know this won't happen again?"

Eric: "The car showed the problem while it was hooked up to the computer. Immediately after the engine misfired, the computer gave me the bad O2 sensor diagnostic. After replacing it, I drove the car for awhile and it didn't have the problem."

On the way home, about 6 miles away from the dealership, or about the time it got fully warmed up it started with the jerking. At freeway speeds it's like the engine stops running for a split second. There is quite an abrupt jerk. It feels like the brakes are being applied very quickly and then let go of very quickly. At slower speeds it feels like stumbling or misfiring. It's going back in on Thursday. They're giving me a loaner car. I can't wait to discuss the money spent on installing the wrong parts on the car and how to resolve that issue. Yep, that will be a blast....

Ask to have the co pilot installed, ask to give you the recording that you will make on a memory stick and send them via email to me.

Glenn

Really? That's quite a generous offer. Thanks, Glenn. I will ask them about it.

One more thing--they said that they had a cam sensor code but from 20 starts ago, and said they figured it was from a while ago, when I was working on the car and not a fresh one.

i had a 1993 that did the same things some what and it turned out to be the egr . the sensor was bad change that and never had no more trouble. i all so thought it was a crankshaft sensor or cam shaft sensor. what i am saying is that a bad sensor can send a bad signal to the computor. i have had computor do the same thing. i hope that what i have told you will help you fine your problem on your own .if not use a scaner

The car is going in tomorrow (Thurs.) They will hook up Co-Pilot to the vehicle and drive it. Am I correct to presume this will give more detailed readouts of engine status and errors? (I've searched for Co-Pilot auto diagnostic tool on Google but found little info. Anybody have a link?)

I know you professional mechanics want to get the codes before making an assessment but meanwhile, can't we do some speculating based on the behavior of the problem at idle, low speed, and highway speeds?

At idle the vehicle will drop down in rpm getting dangerously close to dying, then pick back up and find proper idling speed again. Sometimes it will die while idling but usually it happens with the vehicle moving at very low speeds, i.e. under 10 mph. The sensation is that the engine is stumbling.

At speeds of about 30 mph, the car will feel as if it's stuttering or tugging. I've never had it die while traveling at this speed.

At highway speeds there is a very abrupt, sudden jerk. I would describe it as if the engine shutdown for a split second and then resumed running. There is no backfiring. If you were a passenger in the car you would think the brakes had been tapped forcefully and then quickly released. If you were sleeping, you would be awakened, it's that abrupt of a jerk.

So, does this information help anyone to make an intelligent guess?

(I've got this gut feeling they're going to find the crankshaft sensor needs replacing. Would an intermittent crank sensor produce the symptoms described above?)

It sounds like that has already been done.:grinno: :lol2: :lol: If you want to guese at it or go speculating better put your money in the loto or a good crap/bingo game. B4ecause it would be cheaper to buy a new car than to start throwing parts at it. Remember proper testing is the only way to get it fixed.:lol2: :grinyes: :grinno:

Starting to get a little peeved. I asked the Head Service Writer yesterday if they will be using the Co-Pilot diagnostic tool and he said yes. "Just be sure to bring the vehicle in first thing in the morning."

I dropped it off at 7:50 am. It jerked four times on the way there, didn't die though. No other cars were in the staging area for service. I asked the service writer if they will be using Co-Pilot. (it was a different person than the day before).

"I don't know what he'll be using."

"Well, yesterday Gerald told me Eric would be using Co-Pilot. I brought along a USB memory stick and I'd like to have any error codes they find downloaded onto this stick. They can do that, right?"

She looks at me like I just asked her to swallow a burning sword. "Well, I'll write your request right on the work ticket." (she did and she took my memory stick.)

I don't hear anything all morning long so I call at 12:10 pm. "They haven't started to look at it yet."

I don't hear anything, now it's 3:45. I call them and they tell me that they've "been working on it in between other jobs" and that they've "gotten it to exhibit the problem only once. They have it idling right now and will be taking it out for another test drive before 4:00 pm."

They are keeping the vehicle overnight.

Well I do not know if they are jerking you a round or not but remember good work is like good wine it takes time. :iceslolan

But here is the question to put to them. Tip on going to the dealer Ask that only a factory certified gasoline engine performance specialist work on your car. Not all dealerships are concerned with how repairs are dispatched, and not all dealership techs bother to take advantage of the training offered by factory (the vast majority of which is paid training). If the dealer is uncooperative, ask for your money back and call around for a dealer that will accommodate you. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

if they used the co-pilot and it jerked or hesitated and they snapped a picture of what it did.. they should have captured your problem, if they cant give you the reading they can upload the data to Chrysler and have one of the guys up there determine what the problem may be. Ask to speak to the tech that is working on it

Glenn

Thanks Glenn. I'm on it like bark on a tree trunk.