Dim Headlights on 97 voyager

On that point I continue to disagree. As we age, we tend to lose color perception on the longer wavelengths.

"In addition, the lens becomes yellow with aging, thus reducing transparency for short wavelengths more than for medium and long wavelengths. In people >

60 yr, this age-related change results in a reduction in discrimination of blue objects, which often appear gray; blue print and blue background typically appear washed out. This condition can be confirmed with the use of color plates during a routine eye examination. People who use color discrimination in their professions (eg, artists, seamstresses, electricians) need to be alert to these changes."
Reply to
Dennis
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Did you even read what you cited?

Reply to
Arif Khokar

I was paraphasing what was being said, to try to make sense of the Sylvania web site which seemed a bit obtuse. For the record, I also said that for myself, green light is best for night time vision. Red is not so hot. And I could add that blue appears the worse of the three although I have yet to personally test blue. This assumes all three have the same output for a point of reference.

Interesting story you tell there.

I know. I would be quite happy with clear bulbs in clear housings and not any blue light which is mighty annoying when it enters my eyeballs.

Reply to
treeline12345

Maybe he doesn't understand that blue is a shorter wavelength than red or green? Or doesn't realize "color perception" has little to do with sensitivities to different colors? Or realilze that "reducing transparency" will translate to "not be able to see as well?"

Reply to
Joe Pfeiffer

Roughly half the population is glare-sensitive. The other half cannot understand what they're bitching about with regard to headlamp glare at night, and tend to make dismissive remarks to the effect that people who have faulty vision shouldn't drive at night. The glare-sensitive half, on the other hand, cannot understand how anyone could *not* be blinded and hurt by the glare.

The emerging understanding is that while blue light is inherently more glaring simply due to the nature of short-wavelength light and the nature of the human visual system, half the population -- which is NOT necessarily the same half as those who are glare-sensitive! -- are especially blue-sensitive, such that blue light causes pain and reduces visual acuity even at relatively low intensities.

So, we have four types of night drivers:

1) The lucky ones who are neither glare-sensitive nor blue-sensitive 2) Those who are glare-sensitive but not blue-sensitive (that's me) 3) Those who are blue-sensitive but not glare-sensitive 4) Those who are both glare-sensitive and blue-sensitive

There is no group for which blue light gives better seeing while driving at night. Just about every group you can think of has been tested for it

-- young, old, glare-sensitive, nonglare-sensitive, male, female, black, white, etc., and in no group has there been a reliable finding of significantly improved seeing with "blue" (i.e., blue-rich or yellow-poor relative to balanced white) light.

There was one study done which purported to show an amazing 30% improvement in seeing ability for drivers of any/every age, sex, ethnicity, etc. with Sylvania Cool Blue bulbs relative to ordinary Sylvania bulbs. This study was commissioned and funded by Sylvania, and Sylvania provided both the clear and the blue bulbs used in the study. Given that the 9006 bulbs used in the study are legally permitted to produce between 850 and 1150 lumens, it's not difficult to figure out how the result was obtained. Funnily enough, all the studies that are *not* sponsored and stocked by companies that sell blue bulbs show that there's increased glare from such bulbs, with no seeing benefit for anyone.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Blue is a short wavelength. Yellow is a long one. Thank you for proving my case.

DS (Would you like to discuss the matter at the International Symposium on Automotive Lighting end of next month in Darmstadt? I'll be there, how 'bout you?)

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

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This, not a bunch of BS, is exactly what I'm observing. So tell me why> I'm not seeing this in real life. (Remember, I have no agenda, I'm not> selling any competing light products nor have nothing to gain whether> you or anyone else believe me or not.) Certainly you have an agenda: To have your opinion and your purchase decisions validated. That's just human nature. It's why products like Slick-50 and Silverstar bulbs continue to sell.

Numerous links have already been supplied to detailed and scientific explanations of how and why the blue-filtered bulbs you like do not help you see better. That you have chosen not to read them, or to disbelieve them, does not elevate your subjective opinion or Sylvania's pseudoscientific hype to the level of fact.

DS (...or perhaps the laws of physics cease to be valid in your minivan.)

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

"> Certainly you have an agenda: To have your opinion and your purchase

No, Daniel J. Stern, I do NOT have an agenda; you do. I'm not in business of selling automotive light assemblies; you are. I only posted that I can see much better after installing the Silverstar with it's white light. Not blue, white. I like the better vision and am willing to recommend them. When I originally wrote that I seen better after I switched to the Siverstar, you had to write and tell me how wrong it was, that I couldn't possibly be seeing better, that it was only my misguided "opinion". No one can possibly see better by switching over to the Silverstar bulbs.

Bullshit!

You know as well as I that a bright white light makes everything easier to see at night. There are pictures of several of Sylvania's different lights and how they look at night available on their website. All you or anyone else need do is bring each one up in a different browser window and switch between them. It's easy to see the difference between each of the different bulbs. (I would love to have the GE bulbs for comparison as well, but they don't post pictures.)

Here's the one you favor, the Xtravision, uncoated and yellow light

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's the SilverStar with its slight blush tint and white light
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here's a Cool Blue with its deep blue tint (which is definitely dimmer)
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This is an easy way for you (and everyone else) to see the difference for yourselves. Load all three in separate browsers, then switch between them using .

Still think the yellow light of the Xtravision is better?

LOAD THE PAGES AND SEE THE DIFFERENCE FOR YOURSELF.

You can't help but see the difference.

(Maybe it camera trick? Perhaps Sylvania is publishing fake pictures? It's possible; but having used the Silverstar, I have to believe that their somewhat an honest representation of what to expect.)

This goes for everyone else that took his position. Load the two sets of pictures, look at the difference between the XtraVision and the SilverStar, and see for yourself what YOU think is better. Perhaps I'm wrong and you will favor the yellow light. Personally I see much better with the white.

For the record, I did check your website when I first was looking for information about the SilverStar. I read your comments, and simply choose to ignore your viewpoint (on the SilverStar). I had already seen the SilverStar's in my neighbors car and loved the results of better visibility and vision.

Reply to
Dennis

Thanks for your reply, Richard. I believe you are confusing the Sylvania CoolBlue with the Sylvania SilverStar that I was writing about. There is a big difference between the two.

First the gas mixture in the SilverStar is a combination of halogen and xenon (not just straight halogen with a blue filter.) The xenon gas is what provides the whiter light. (The light blue/purple coating on the glass filters out the red rays that would normally make the light yellow.) The result is a very white, bright light (different from the Cool Blue which is a halogen gas bulb and has a dark blue filter.)

I'm not certain as to what gas the XtraVision uses. Probably just halogen with a stronger filament. (That, is just a guess, I never looked that closely at this bulb.)

An easy way for you to see the difference for yourself is to compare pictures of the different bulbs (load and switch between the two using the keys.

Here is what a XtraVision looks like:

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is what the SilverStar looks like:
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here is the Cool Blue bulbs (this is the one I believe you were thinking about)
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As you can see, the SilverStar and XtraVision or both bright bulbs; the difference being one is yellow light and one is white. The Cool Blue is much dimmer and has a distinctive blue light associated with it. IF this is what you were thinking of, I wholeheartedly agree with your comments (however I was recommending the SilverStar, not the Cool Blue's.).

I would be interested in your comments after looking at the light of all three bulbs. Do you still feel that the SilverStar is not worth considering? And if so, why?

Reply to
Dennis

I have the silverstar bulbs in my 97 concorde, and enjoy them better than anything else i've tried, but i also have to frequently clean the plastic headlight lenses with plastic cleaner to remove the foggy buildup since the plastic does not have a UV protectant integral to the plastic.

Reply to
<tigermw

There is very little difference between these two bulbs. The SilverStar has a darker blue tint to the glass and a shorter lifespan.

Same goes for every halogen car bulb you can buy. It's just that some of the boxes say "XENON!" and others don't. Did you know that the maximum usable percentage of Xenon in a halogen bulb is 5-1/2 percent? More than that, and adjacent coils of the filament tend to arc to one another.

No, the blue glass filters out *yellow* rays that would otherwise help you see. It does not filter out red rays.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

So not only do the laws of physics cease to hold good in your minivan, but human nature doesn't apply to you, either.

That's fascinating, but I'm afraid it's not quite fascinating enough, so...into the killfile you go!

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Are you sure about that? Surely it filters out BOTH yellow and red. Otherwise, you would have a magenta beam, not blue.

Reply to
Whoever

Sorry, your wrong. I got my information directly from Sylvania.

The XtraVision is halogen only, and gets its added visibility from a beter focused beam. The SilverStar has the same focusing and gets its whiter beam by using xenon gas. (Both have approx the same distance according to Sylvania.) One is a yellower light, the other is a pure white.)

The only thing new is that the email they sent yesterday, Pamula stated that they do not recommend the SilverStar for Daylight Running Lights use (shortens the life too much). (I do not use this feature in either my Chrysler Sebring convertible nor my Mercury Sable.)

Again, that came directly from Sylvania. It's a blue/purple coating that filters the red rays. And looking at the bulb, it's only a light coating, nothing like the Cool Blue bulbs.

Reply to
Dennis

I just bought a plastic cleaner off of eBay and tried it. It was OK but nothing to write home about. A neighbor uses toothpaste to clean his lenses and claims it works well.

But you raised a good point, after cleaning, what's to stop UV from quickly clouding the lenses again?

After cleaning my plastic lenses, I found my problem isn't yellowing or cloudiness, it's tiny pits from sand and whatnot. Like to refinish the surface without using 2000 grit sandpaper but I'm afraid I may have to go that way. One of the fellas I work with, recommended 3M Plastic Polish.

Like to ask, what kind of plastic cleaner did you use and would you recommend it?

Reply to
Dennis

I am quite sure about it. There's a very good SPD diagram in Sullivan, J M, and Flannagan, M J: "Visual Effects of Blue Tinted Tungsten-Halogen Headlamp Bulbs". Michigan University, Ann Arbor, Transportation Research Institute, UMTRI 94291, April 2001 .

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

I have used Meguiar's PlastX and it does look an awfully lot like toothpaste. Depending on the abrasivity index of the toothpaste, it could come close to polishing. The more abrasive toothpastes which have indices over 120 might be okay. I would not use them often for teeth but that's another story. If you telephone the manufacturer of toothpaste they will give you the abrasivity index, which has a special name, of course.

Relative dentine abrasivity (RDA) and relative enamel abrasivity (REA) are the technical names. But the plastic polishers are not much more than the toothpaste. Although they both kind of do the same thing.

But toothpaste probably does not have UV protectors unless you go around all day with your nose in the air, smiling at the clouds.

I think that's cool. But it annoys my fellow humans to no end :)

If you command the sun to go inside of keep your car inside during the day. I just use sunscreen with a high index - this is a joke.

They do make polishes for this purpose. Depending on where you live, you might ask around for those who have a big problem with this. Motorcycle shops might know about this but I don't know if the plastic in motorcycle windshields is the same plastic in your car. For example, Lexan would not be likely used in your car. That's the super tough plastic used in difficult situations. So maybe using the motorcycle shops makes this a bit complicated. Stick to the cars instead?

3M makes a lot. Novus does too. Meguiar's. There is a whole lot of talk on the internet about this, specifically for cars, and for RV's, and motorcycles. There are even kits for this. There is a lot of expertise that is out there.

I used Meguiar's PlastX. The main reason was cost. It was $1 a little pouch, so not much to lose. That and an old pair of socks. Did the job. Now Pep Boys has Blue Magic which some like. That's $6 or $7. I don't find too much selection in the auto stores. You might also ask your Chrysler dealer if they have any ideas since this is a very typical problem. I mention Pep Boys since AutoZone where I got the Meguiar's can't find any more of my $1 pouches!

I can order Meguiar's directly from them on the internet for about $5 + $4 shipping since I cannot find it locally. I find everything else but not their PlastX which they recommend for just this purpose, a cleaner and polisher in one.

Plast-X G12310 10 oz. 296 ml $4.99 $3.95 UPS Meguiars.com

1.800.347.5700

That should get you up and running at the base level. About the sanding, that's a step up the ladder if the basic stuff does not work by itself.

If you want to get a little more complicated, 3M and Novus makes a whole series of polishers and increasingly tougher cleaners. You start off with the mild and work your way up, depending on the scratches that you have. And you can also use the very fine sanding. You might want to contact them and read up on it. My only first-hand experience is with Meguiar's PlastX. It took only a minute.

Reply to
treeline12345

Forgot to mention in previous reply: You are assuming the blue glass filters out *all* the yellow light, which it does not. Since the majority of a halogen bulb's visible output is in the yellow, the degree is limited to which yellow can be filtered out and still have a bulb that complies with legal-minimum luminous flux and legal-maximum wattage.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

" One is a yellower light, the other is a pure white."

Again, there is no such thing as "Pure White". Now, color TV has selected an NTSC standard for white, to be used in camera and display calibration, but that is not "pure white" either, just a standard (high noon, sun generated, outdoor white). In the real world the Sylvania bulb that puts out the most useful light in North America is the Xtravision line of bulbs. The GE Night Hawk line puts out even more light. Neither are coated. The most light is put out by bulbs invented by GE and produced today by Toshiba (coated to reflect the otherwise wasted heat back to the filament to increase its efficiency). Expensive, and worth every penny in the right application.

Richard.

Richard.

Reply to
Richard

On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, it was written:

That's right. In the context of automotive lighting, about the closest accurate term that exists is "centric white", because the US and International standard for light color contain enormous white boxes.

Also right.

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

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