Re: GM, Ford reputations take a hit

Wow - that is unusual in my experience. Just shows to go ya - never think you have it all figured out...

Luckily, I was aware that this problem existed with the series two engines.

When the dealership finished the car, they replaced coolant as well, and told me there was no water in the oil. I changed the oil anyway. There were a few drops of water in the drain oil, but the innards were not exposed to it for long.

Toyota has only around 5% of the full size truck market, Nissan around 3%.. Honda does not even offer a full size truck. Ford has more than 35% and GM has nearly 30%, Dodge nearly 20%. Corollas are assembled in Canada of mostly imported parts

Naturally you are free to believe whatever you wish but even Toyota does not agree with you. Their ads say assembled in the US of world sourced parts. ;)

mike

Yeap. US-brand trucks where the 1st, 2nd and 5th best selling vehicles in the US last year (The Camry and Corolla both outsold the Dodge Ram). The only import to make the top-10 list of best selling trucks came in at 8th (Tacoma) in truck sales and was 15th best selling vehicle.

While interesting, this has what to do with your claim that there are no small Japanese branded cars made in the US?

Corollas are also assembled in California:

Last I checked, the US is part of the world.

Why don't you go and find some independent numbers that show the proportion of parts in Japanese-brand cars that are made in the US?

I am free to believe whatever I want. And what I believe is based on evidence. Which means that most of what you have to say doesn't influence what I beleive, because you can't bakc your claims. However, I believe that you are a smart gentleman.

Jeff

This is a huge posting and is full of information, some correct and some not so! However, there is just not a valid reason to buy a vehicle that will result in the PROFIT being accrued to a FOREIGN company. In the end that is the important aspect and the future of our economy depends on it. Just keep rationalizing reasons for sending our money to the other side of the world and watch your children and grandchildren aspire to careers in the fast food industry...

Rant Over...

Bruce

\

Yes, that's EXACTLYY what it means.

It also means that the components are built more exactly to

If the piston-to wall spacing of the ASSEMBLED ENGINE falls outside the specified CLEARANCE (spaces between engine components) then its OUT OF SPEC. What you're talking about (production tolerance) simply improvies the YIELD of things like pistons, blocks, and crankshafts, meaning that they discard fewer as being out of spec these days. But when the engine is ASSEMBLED, everything has to be made from parts that are IN SPECIFICATION.

Again, you are taking improvements in "producability" and interpreting them as improvements in product. Not true.

I don't know about Ford, but Chrysler made the switch to a very hard block alloy across all engine families in 1962, along with major changes in casting methods to lighten the blocks. That was the longevity turning point for Chrysler engines, although the 50s Hemis lived a long time simply because of very high build quality compared to the industry average at the time. I think most of those changes were already in place for the slant-6 when it debuted in 1960.

Olds, Pontiac, and Buick switched block materials around that time as well, with Oldbmobile blocks being particularly well-known for hardness. Only Chevrolet continued along with cheap, soft, low-nickel block material all the way into the 80s and 90s.

Wrong. I am taking improvements in products and interpreting them as improvements in products.

Had you read and understood the web pages I cited, you would understand what I mean.

Until you are able to make sense, I will not reply you in this thread.

Jeff

"Full-sized trucks" Funny use of English in America.

You are not talking about proper full-size trucks, presumably :-)

DAS

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling

No skin off my nose. I'm just an ignorant ol' engineer who doesn't really understand this stuff

The difference between 1, 4, and 5, as they pertain to the VIN, define the US content. You however chose to believe something else. ;)

mike

You keep making that same promise to everybody with whom you disagree. Then you come back with your own opinion anyway. ;)

mike

I choose to beleive what I have evidence for. I found the actual US Code that requries VINs, and it says nothing about US content is the actual code.

*All* of the evidence that I found, except your statements that you don't back up, supports that the reason why there are three different first digits for the VINs allocated to the US is that there are so many different vehicles, like cars, trucks, buses, fire trucks, ambulances, construction equipment, off-road vehicles (which now have their own serial numbers), motorcycles, etc., and so many different manufacturers, that the US needed more than one first digit for the VIN. This explains why all Lincoln SUVs VINs start with 5, all Mercury SUVs start with 4 and all Ford SUVs start with one even when they are made at the same plant and have the same US + Canadian content. It seems rather strange to me that Ford would take a truck. If Mike's conjecture is correct, it is also strange to me that Ford would make *all* of its Ford SUVs > 70% US content, all of its Mercury SUVs between 40% and 70% US content and all of its Lincoln SUVs < 40% US content. Ford didn't get VINs for SUVs for Mercury and Lincoln because they didn't need them. Later, when they did need them, they got 4's and 5's, because the 1's were all used up. Otherwise, explain why Ford uses so little US content for *all* Lincoln SUVs, and more for *all* Mercury SUVs, and even more for *all* Ford SUVs. Also, explain why not *one* article I read in the newspaper or the internet, when discussing domestic content mentioned the VIN. *Not one.*

Everything that I know and learned, except the conjecture of one guy who says that his friend, a retired engineer said something different, is consistant with the idea that the first digit of the VIN has nothing to do with US content.

Please provide the link that shows that you are correct and I will donate $50 to your favoriate charity. All you need to do is look at the domestic content on the stickers at the NYC car show, and I bet there is at least one sticker that shows a VIN starting with 1 and less than 70% US content. Start looking at the Ford Mustangs, which, according to the reports I have read, have 60-65% domestic content. You might also look at the Chevy Tahoe, which has reportedly has 8% content from outside North America, and 25% from Mexico, yet still have a VIN beginning with 1.

Jeff

I always thought the first number in a VIN meant that country the car was built in. Nothing to do with content, but where the car was actually built. My Bonnie has a '1', as it was built in the US. Trans Am's and Impala's have a '2' cause they are built in Canada.

Some US built cars have a 4 or 5. Mike keeps saying that those with 4 have

40-70% US content and those with less than 40% have a 5. He said a retired engineer friend of his said this was so. Yet, Mike has never been able to provide any evidence that this is so. Nothing I have found is consistent with his view. The truth is, it used to be only 1's, but they had to add 4's and 5's when there were not enough IDs for manufacturers left in the 1 series.

Jeff

I'll have to disagree with you on that point, Steve.

It appears to me that you are confusing tolerance with clearance (space between parts). (Certainly the two are related when you start doing tolerance stack-ups and worst-case dimension and clearance analysis).

Here's an example of tight tolerance but very large space (clearance) between parts: Part A ID is 1.0000 ±0.0002". Part B fits in Part A, and has an OD of 0.7500 ±0.0002".

In contrast, here's an example of tight tolerance, but low clearance: Part A ID is 1.0000 +0.0005/-0.0000". Part B OD is 0.9998 +0.0000/-0.0005".

Bill Putney (To reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with the letter 'x')

No, only improper full-sized trucks.

Dave

My US assembled Sonata has a 5. It is 25% US, 75% Korean parts. Of course, it still may be just a new series of numbers as you point out.

This has some information, but not correct.

They state the first digit is the country, but 5 is not listed. They then state the second digit is the manufacturer, buy my Hyundai has an "N", they say is for Nissan.

This shows a 5 as US

The first 3 characters indicate what is called the "world manufacturer ID," or WMI. The first digit indicates the country or region of manufacture. For example, 1, 4 and 5 are US, 2 is Canada, 3 is the rest of North America, and J is Japan. However, it is all three characters that identify a manufacturer, not just the 2nd one. For example, 1ME is a WMI for Mercury, while 1M1, 1M2, 1M3 is one for Mach Trucks. The reason why 5 was not listed is probably that 5 was added last as a US VIN, because it needed more numbers than was possible with just 1 and 4 as the first digits, because so many different companies make trucks, cars, motocycles, off-road vehicles (off-road vehicles have their own VIN system, but it shared VINs with on-road vehicles until a few years ago), construction equipment, fire trucks, buses, etc. Usually, the type of vehicle is identified as well, like pickup, SUV, sedan, motor cycle, etc. That is why there are more than one VIN for Mack.

So it is a combination of all three characters, not just the first two that identify the maker (and the type of vehicle), including the country it was made in.

Jeff