What Bugs Me About the 300

I just want to know one thing: Why do some manufacturers still build cars with a roof liner adhesive that fails after so many years, and others don't have this problem? I used to think they cheaped out on the lower end products (Cavaliers, etc.) to punish the low-end buyer, but an '88 Cadillac that I used to own did that. What's up with that!?

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Reply to
Bill Putney
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No doubt, but it is all wheel drive.

Reply to
Rick Blaine

: I just want to know one thing: Why do some manufacturers still build : cars with a roof liner adhesive that fails after so many years, and : others don't have this problem? I used to think they cheaped out on the : lower end products (Cavaliers, etc.) to punish the low-end buyer, but an : '88 Cadillac that I used to own did that. What's up with that!?

For many years a headliner was held up by rods that extended from side to side just below the inner roof. The rods were slid into fabric loops sewn into the underside of the headliner and it was suspended from above.

Sometime in the 70's GM started to experiment, first with perforated cardboard headliners in Novas and Camaros, then with the foam-backed knit cloth like in your Cadillac. That material was spray-adhesive attached to a styrofoam backer and the whole thing was simply held in place by the side garnish moldings. If you've ever seen one fail, it's not the adhesive but instead the foam backing on the fabric. The foam simply rots over time and the whole thing delaminates. Whether they (or anyone) still uses this method, I dunno.

-- Greg Beaulieu snipped-for-privacy@chebucto.ns.ca Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, Canada

Reply to
Greg Beaulieu

Ah - now that you mention it - that is consistent with what I observed on the Cadillac and the Cavalier - the foam between the fabric and the backer board disintegrating. Seems I also remember the liner in a Dodge Aspen doing the same thing - so it's not just a G.M. thing.

I guess my question is why did some manufacturers apparently not have the problem (with the foam disintegrating), and others had it for many many years - like they couldn't learn from the competition (either that, or it was an intentional planned obsolescence thing).

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Reply to
Bill Putney

Down here is south FL you see the problem in all sorts of cars. Problem is so prevalent that most any car wash in town will replace them for less than $100.

Steve B.

Reply to
Steve B.

Yeah - here in VA, you can have it done too - used car dealers and shops have guys come thru in a van every week or two to handle cars on the lot or for paying customers at $60-$80 a pop. It just seems that some brands don't have the problem at all, while it's an "undocumented feature" on certain brands after so many years. But I guess you're right - FL would be the real proving grounds for the problem. My point is that the technical solution is out there - why don't the makers use it.

Bill Putney (to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my address with "x")

Reply to
Bill Putney

Because they want to bother you.

Reply to
RPhillips47

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It's not the adhesive. The culprit is the thin layer of foam that makes the headliner feel "cushy." It rots and crumbles, and the fabric lets go of the hardboard panel it's supposed to be affixed to.

I'm a Cadillac victim, too. A 1979 Eldorado. Not only did the headliner foam rot out and allow the headliner to droop, but the paint went bad. The pretty Firemist metallic silver flaked off, down to primer, and when I got rid of it, we were avoiding washing the car because every time, more little flakes came off. To make the car safe to drive (so the driver could see out the back window) we used staples to hold the headliner to the hardboard liner. It was ugly but it worked.

That car was a real turd. I have never owned another GM product since, except for a 1963 Corvette that isn't a daily driver.

Reply to
Gene Poon

I had the headliner fail on every car I've owned that was more then 10 years old since

1980 models.

The best way I found to prop up the headliner short of replacing the entire headliner or having an interior shop redo it is by stringing flat plastic paneling trim from home depot across the headliner in the finish of your choice. Cost me $12 in trim to do this on my 88 New Yorker. Good enough for a car with 99,000 miles.

Reply to
Steve Stone

Odd, that. My humble 1993 Merc 190 appears to show no sign of the roof lining coming off (or have I misunderstood the problem?). Next time I get in it I check carefully.

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

Neither did my 1986 Ford Taurus (sorry), which departed to another owner only about a year ago.

-GP

Reply to
Gene Poon

My father's 65 falcon ate valves. His 57 Ford wagon ate starters. In fact one fell out of the engine on to the street. Clutches didn't last at all in the old days. Carburators were a PIA in my opinion, especially in cold climates.

73 was the best year for the Valiant and Dart. My father had a 71 swinger, 73 4 door Plymouth valiant and 75 valiant hard top (same as swinger). The 75 barely drove off the lot. Had to be restarted 3 times.

I prefer the good new days.

Reply to
Art

Habit. I test drove a Malibu Max yesterday. Consumer Reports said the sedan was a breakthru product competitive with Camry and Accord. So I took the Maxx version for a spin. Indeed it was the best GM car I've ever been in. But in the back it has a clear roof with shades for the rear passengers. The catch for the shades in the car in the showroom didn't work at all and the one in the car I drove probably wouldn't last a month. Typcial GM crap. Like I said, habit.

Reply to
Art

Were some of these cars kept in a garage? I suspect that can make a tremendous difference in how long it takes for heat and sun to degrade foam and rubber.

Reply to
Art

Art, you don't know what the hell you are talking about and I really wish you'd quit emitting these baseless factoids. By '73, the materials and build quality had fallen *well* below the high-water mark which lasted from '63 to '69. The '70s were only very slightly below this level, the '71s slightly below the '70s, the '72s slightly below the '71s, and the '73s substantially below the '72s.

The best sales years for the Dart were '65 and '70, in a near-even tie. The best brakes were available from late '65 through '72. The best carburetion was in '70-'71. The best interior climate control was '68-'72. The best trunk space was '63-'69 (Dart), '67-'73 (Valiant). The best bench seats were '63-'66. The best instrument cluster was '63-'65 (Dart), '62-'64 (Valiant). The best standard-equipment performance was in '70. The best factory-optional 6-cylinder performance was from '63 to '70. The best factory-optional 8-cylinder performance was from '67 to '69. The highest-performance 6-cylinder was available '60-'62. The best standard wheels were from '69 to '72. The thickest, best-rustproofed body metal: '63-'66, then '67-'71. The best manual transmission and shifter: '64-'65. The ONLY THING that was the best in '73 was the ignition distributor. That's *it*.

I say again: You are full of shit.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Fords are garbage. This is not news.

I know an original owner of a '63 Valiant V200 convertible in the Denver area. His car has nearly 200,000 miles on it. It is still on its original clutch. Perhaps he knows how to drive a stick shift car better than you or your dad.

Improperly-designed, improperly-adjusted carburetors are indeed a pain in the ass. Properly-designed, properly-adjusted ones are not.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

And as we all know, Condemner Retards' words come directly from God.

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Is this what passes for wisdom these days in this NG?

Let me expand on the above-quoted "true-ism":

"Improperly-designed, improperly-adjusted are indeed a pain in the ass. Properly-designed, properly-adjusted ones are not."

Let's see someone top that.

Reply to
MoPar Man

Do you disagree with the statement? If so, how and why?

This isn't an expansion, it's a replacement of "carburetors" with "".

Care to try again?

DS

Reply to
Daniel J. Stern

Heat? What heat? My car is parked under the grey skies of London... :-)

It is mostly outside.

And I did check at the weekend. No sign of the roof liner coming off. Now that I have said it, I suppose it's the beginning of the end...

DAS

Reply to
Dori A Schmetterling

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