in article snipped-for-privacy@nntp.aacit.net, 2Rowdy at snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 26/05/2005 19:21:
It's a nice one ...
Very tempting, but I think for my first "toe in the water" with Citroën, I need a later model ... and coming from SAAB, a faster one :) They are very few and far between, though.
While I'm looking for a CX, how does the Xantia hold up to "that" Citroën experience? They're available in abundance. What about a BX or an XM? What is the fast (preferably, turbocharged), luxury model of those? Or, is a lesser powered diesel worth looking at for a daily driver?
Paul Halliday ( snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
Xant? Fairly "normal", fairly tedious. BX? Slightly less "normal", still fairly tedious. XM? Lot more "normal" than a CX, far "better" car. But not a patch on a CX as an emotional experience.
I've had a 2.0 Turbo auto (150bhp) XM for nearly five years, replacing an '89 CX 25GTi auto. I *miss* that CX.
If you're considering an XM, go for a series 2 (post-95). 2.0 16v, 2.0 Turbo, 3.0 v6, 3.0 24v, 2.1TD, 2.5TD.
2.5TD is fast, but starting to look as if it doesn't much like high mileages. Auto boxes like dying at 120k+ miles, but easily prevented by changing the fluid every engine oil change.
in article Xns9662E548B43E9adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170, Adrian at snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 26/05/2005 22:32:
I'm pretty sure my brother-in-law had a Xantia, and I was underwhelmed :) I suppose I'm looking for a car with that suspension, while I continue to find a CX. TBH, the SAAB (although a 1989 model, it's an uprated/modified 8V turbo) is getting a little old and I need to take it out of daily driving for a while to get some proper remedial work done. I'll probably swap them around then and "do up" the CX, so I end up with the best of all worlds.
The CX is really the only car that has inspired me (apart from another C900, which I said in my first post). Having looked into it a little now, they're pretty rare but I still think a late one would make a pretty good daily driver. I'm pretty unimpressed by the Xantia and the BX, although the XM does look like a kind of reasonable compromise between all those models (spoken as an outsider - I don't want to offend anyone's pride and joy out of hand). Any one of those cars is much easier to find a good example of than the CX ... and I *must* have that suspension :)
Is the XM turbo the same spec/engine as the Xantia Activa turbo? 150 BHP, but a laggy 10 second 0-60? There's an impressive torque figure, nevertheless. I know how to drive turbos and make use of the mid-range (that's what SAAB did very well on the C900s), so if it's the one I think then it will fit the bill quite nicely.
Paul Halliday ( snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
XMs and top-spec Xants go one better, with Hydractive instead of "plain" Hydraulic - there's a third sphere each end which comes in to give softer springing and out to give firmer handling. It's very very impressive indeed.
In fact, if it weren't for having Hippo, the XM'd be something fairly ordinary. I *like* my Hippo.
Yep, same lump. It's no ball of fire, but it's a very nice compromise. Boost's managed to give a very flat, very fat torque curve - that "impressive" torque figure is *constant* from about 2,200 to nearly
in article Xns9662EB105E4Eadrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170, Adrian at snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 26/05/2005 23:06:
Great! Thanks. I think I prefer the XMs to the Xantia, though. TBH I'm a sucker for retro-styling :)
Heck, yeah, that constant torque (CT, right?) is impressive. The C900 SAAB had all its torque right there, but unless your turbo is setup "bang on", it kind of wanes just after 3500 RPM and tails off completely to basic boost by
5500 RPM. My APC System (SAAB's turbo timer, controller and knock sensor) is setup to give strong constant boost (and therefore a flatter torque curve after the initial spike) throughout the rev range to 5500 RPM.
Paul Halliday ( snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
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If you know PHP, though, Paul, and you're serious that you'd be happy to devote a bit of time & effort, drop me an email to snipped-for-privacy@citroencarclub.org.uk
Paul Halliday ( snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
Absolutely. And ALL UK XMs have Hippo, whereas just a small subset of UK Xants do.
Truly waftomatic. The manual's numerically WAY faster, but the auto's just plain creamy.
You're on the motorway, traffic's moving, but busy. The guy in front of you looks like he's about to move left. You're on a steady throttle - he moves. Pull the shift lever back from D to 3, ease the throttle *subtly* and you've just gained 20mph, and you're clear of him.
in article Xns9663C7DEE8769adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170, Adrian at snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 27/05/2005 19:38:
Well, that is worth knowing. I'm quite keen on an auto, but got the impression that a manual box would be better on the CX. I think I'd enjoy the new experience. I see from your CCC site in the XM blurb, that the SAAB is mentioned as a similar approach to/experience of the constant torque engine.
I think the SAAB in question must be one of the newer ones, because the older C900s with the Garrett T3 are of the "big bang gearbox killer" variety. SAAB quelled that aggressive torque snap with the Mitsubishi turbo on the later (1991 onwards) models. On the older ones, the APC system can be tuned to give a nicer boost rise, or tweaked for dragging motorbikes off the line at the lights!!!
Right, I'm off to find a few XMs this weekend. There's half a dozen within a
10 mile radius of my house. I see I need to find the 1993 onwards turbo, or the V6. That said, the 130 BHP injection model would be perfectly adequate.
Can you summarise the XMs, like you did the CX? My requirements are pretty much the same. Is there a particular model or models that have leather and aircon, or were they options? I'm open to auto vs manual, but I think I'm more interested in the petrol models than diesel.
I see from the CCC UK article, that the steering system from the SM/CX was dropped after 1994 on the UK models. Would a 1993 therefore be the one to go for? Which model variants still have the single spoke wheel?
... But no turbo whine :)
... And as I said, it's a fill-in model until I find a good CX.
Message i.d.:, by author Paul Halliday aka inspired me,
The interieur of the pre 94 models look better, I like the spoiler on the back and it has a single spoke wheel. The electronics of the pre 94's are less reliable though the previous owners probalbly have fixed that. Pre 94's are cheaper. XM look great. Modern, even today.
in article snipped-for-privacy@nntp.aacit.net, 2Rowdy at snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 27/05/2005 22:30:
That's the one - gorgeous! I love those wheels - are they alloys, or steel wheel covers? Yes .. That's the one. Thanks.
While I'm looking for my perfect CX, if I had an XM, I think I would be a lot more receptive to a wider range of potential models. I think I got a little blinkered, by looking more specifically at the later models.
Paul Halliday ( snipped-for-privacy@blueyonder.co.uk) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying :
Different beasts, CX-wise. 2.5i = auto, 2.0/2.2/2.5 turbo = manual.
On the XM, I think I'd still lean to the auto. I've had both TCT manual and auto - 4.5 years in the auto, 200 miles in the manual. There's too many pedals in the manual. The auto's fast enough.
Like I said. Buying an XM? s2. No question. Look for four-spoke steering wheel, central front chevrons, sticky-out rear spoiler and rear script badge instead of spoiler on legs and squarish capitals badge. Far better electrics, and (IMHO) nicer interior. But bland compared to CX.
Petrol -
2.0i 16v - Manual base spec (SX) only.
2.0 TCT - Manual/Auto. SX, VSX or Exclusive.
3.0 v6, 24v post-'97(?) - Auto only, Exclusive only (Maybe some VSX?) Diseasel -
2.1TD - Manual/Auto - SX, VSX, Exclusive.
2.5TD - Manual only - VSX/Exclusive.
s1 - no 2.5TD, different 24v V6 (manual only, avoid - every single UK car had a new engine under warranty...) and 2.0i 8v, together with 2.0 carb on early ones - trim levels were i/d, Si/Sd, SEi/SEd.
2.0 non-turbo, even 16v, isn't much for a big car. 2.1TD auto's slow. SX spec's a bit sparse.
Aircon (full digital climate control) was standard on Exclusive, expensive option on VSX - and not massively reliable. Leather was option on VSX and Exclusive - but Exclusive had standard half-leather/half-alcantara (which gets very baggy/saggy over time and looks awful).
If you find one with the tan leather, BUY IT. I've got that in my Black TCT VSX (with bloody-minded climate-aircon), and it's *luvverly*.
TBH, I reckon it's about the best compromise spec - VSX got bare-plastic rubbing strips, Exclusive got body-colour, so shows supermarket carpark scars far worse.
White Exclusive... Fridge-Freezer.
Exclusive had alloys as standard - Minilite-style - but unbalancable by most tyre places, as no centre hole. SX/VSX standard steels, but the optional "wobbly" alloys are nice. Bog standard 15" tyres, nothing to worry about.
I need to read that and correct it.
The CX-style full-pressure steering was only an option on LHD v6 XMs. We never got it on RHD.
Who cares, when it sounds like *that*? The turbo's fairly muted on the TCT - it's only really with the windows open and a high verge/wall that you can hear it at all.
in article Xns9663E6C9FB481adrianachapmanfreeis@204.153.244.170, Adrian at snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 27/05/2005 22:41:
Okay. Well I'm sure I'll be able to try both over the next few days. By too many pedals, are you referring to the "Mercedes"-style parking brake?
Thanks for the list. Well, that's a different opinion. I must say, the older style (just had a rummage around google's picture cache) that 2rowdy posted a picture of is yummy! The four spoke interior looks a little conventional "Euro box", rather than quirky Citroen. Mind you, what do I know? :)
Tan leather in a black car is the dog's danglies! I'm sure I'll find enough examples to be able to compare interiors. Good to know what to aim for, though. It'll save some time.
Noted :)
Ah, right. I'll pay attention to the wheels.
Hmmm! That¹s a little disappointing. Still, nice to save something for the CX experience. Hey, it transpires a colleague had a GS and he absolutely loved it. He couldn't stop talking about the steering and the ride comfort.
Yeah, I can save my turbo fetish for the evenings/weekend with the old SLAAB. My "Orca" slurps like a Scooby, whines almost like a police siren and grumbles somewhere between a cantankerous Airedale terrier and a TVR :)
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