Practical classic for a newbie

Not a bad choice at all. A chap at my work and his brother both run these.

I've a 1500 Spitfire which shares the same engine as 1500 Dollys. Spares availability is superb (probably not quite as good for the Dolly but it will still be very good) and also spares are very cheap on the whole.

Dolomites a classic - possibly not. Historic - certainly. IIRC they were the last of the true Triumph's (having being Toledo's in a previous life IYSWIM)...

Jump into the Dolomite Club Discussion Board

- a very friendly lotindeed :-) The board is free and so is access to their classifiedswww.triumphdolomite.co.uk - read their advice on buying too, all wise words!Dolomites are pretty cheap to buy and run - the Sprints are pretty quickeven by today's standards. As classics go they are arguably not that'classic' but I'd happily drive one again :-)

Straightforward and reliable in 1300 and 1500 form, the 1850 and Sprint are a little more specialised and arguably less reliable in the engine department. When buying any Dolomite look for good bodywork, the panel supply situation is not good, front wings are very scarce and expensive, sills are another thing I remember being difficult. Mechanical spares will be no problem, Cheers, Bill.

What else is there out there that'll meet my requirements?:

1. Cheap to buy
2. Reliable
3. Cheap to maintain (Good spares availability)
4. Good for day to day driving
5. 4 Seats (Family!)
6. Reasonably fast

In news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.de, sPONiX decided to enlighten our sheltered souls with a rant as follows

Capri fits the bill....

'70s VW Beetle :-) (get a 1302S or 1303S, better handling, front disk brakes and 1600 engine)

-- Howard Rose

1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe 1962 Austin Mini Deluxe 1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe (cars and email on website)

I wouldn't say the 1500 is overly reliable, the 1300 is a little more so, but the 1850 and Sprint seem to have the edge in terms of bottom end robustness. The OHC engines do seem to have issues with water pumps and other cooling issues, but that does appear in part to be down to poor quality new parts at times.

Panels can still be found s/h, there's a breakers near me charges 15 quid for a wing, but you have to take it off yourself. Hadrian sills are still available, and the TDC is also remanufacturing sills, as well as various repair panels. Although panels aren't as easy to come by or as cheap as some other cars.

Another good choice would be the 1300fwd, Toledo, or 1500 models (in fwd or rwd form). The 1300 can be got for not much money at all if you're lucky, and is a little different. Engines are the Herald spec in the SC, and mk3 Spit in the (uber rare) TC IIRC. Many differences in trim and other parts, so it can be near impossible to track down certain parts, but most drivetrain parts are still quite easy to come by.

For the most part they are pretty comfortable, although some models don;t have reclining seats, which is a problem if you don't like the set position. There's a fair old amount of space too, especially in the 1500s and Dolomites. Nice to drive with a decent amount of feedback. Different to most of what you see on the road. And as long as it's a good one, perfectly useable as a daily driver.

Plus if you've got a smart 1300fwd the occaisional womanfolk will comment what a lovely car you've got ;)

The 1302S, for certain, fails on (1), (4) and (6). I had one as my first car. A horrible, horrible machine in almost every way. Slow, thirsty, forever going out of tune, vile-going-on-lethal handling (a VW staple for many years after), brakes which would suit only the most determined optimist (ditto) and prone to gassing the occupants (a particularly brain-dead design of heater which was prone to pumping exhaust gas into the cabin). They rust as well, although this has had the advantage of removing many of the nasty things from circulation.

If you _must_ go for a VW, then a late-70s Golf Mk.1 (post- getting the rustproofing right, but you'll not find any other sort). The brakes are still a joke but the handling was as near to right as they got it for years (not saying much, that..).

Better alternatives might be one of the bigger-engined Escort Mk.1s or 2s (if you can find one that's not been hammered to death by the rally boys), Vauxhall Firenzas (if you can find one with an engine which still works and which hasn't died of rust

- but the Sports Hatch version was very tasty), the Dolomite in

1850HL form (Sprints are more expensive and more delicate). I'd also suggest a FIAT 128 Berlinetta or 128 3P if you can find a rustless one (any other sort will be long gone) - lovely to drive, albeit a bit short-geared for long motorway trips. A rustless Alfasud is too much to hope for, and if you're hoping to DIY it then a GS Citroen is out, even though they were just about the best cars of their age (and still stupidly cheap). The GS would fail on (2), though it might be cheap enough to counteract that... Beyond that - an Opel Kadett or Ascona might be worth keeping an eye open for (the RWD ones - think of a Chevette or Mk.1 Cavalier with a decent engine). They were very nice machines for their day. Good, honest trucks.

But take this from a former victim^W owner. Avoid beetles.

Yawn...

Whatever your opinion... I am entitled to mine... Beetles are MUCH better than any BL crap of the same era... The 02 and 03 series of Beetles are the best value you can get today... sure they rust, but that's why you should find a good one!

The only reasons I can think of that your car had bad brakes, heaters and rust was due to extremely poor maintenence... My '66 1300, and also my friends 1975 1303LS have great brakes and scorching heaters...

There's no excuse for not maintaining a Beetle. Parts are cheap!

Basically you don't have an argument, the points you put foward can be raised about *every* car of the same era.

And surely they couldn't have sold 22,000,000 Beetles on the basis that they are crap? They weren't exactly the cheapest car around either. Plus the sales after 1978 in Mexico and Brazil are only a small percentage (2 million) of the total sales in total....

:-P

Anyway, to the original poster... if your not keen on Beetles... Morris Minors, and the 1300 Triumph range were good cars too :-)

-- Howard Rose

1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe 1962 Austin Mini Deluxe 1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe (cars and email on website)

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember snipped-for-privacy@chocks.com (sPONiX) saying something like:

Scimitar, on all counts.

Agreed, but a lot of the poor quality parts were fitted by BL when they built them. Cooling has always been a problem - we had an 1850 and a Sprint in my family when I was young - both of them bought ne and ealer maintained. The Sprint was fairly reliable (but rusted away in record time), but the

1850 which preceded it suffered with cooling system problems from new.

What are the club's sills like? The Hadrian ones I've seen were just skin sills, do the TDC make fully pressed ones? While there may well be secondhand wings available, finding them can be a hit and miss affair.

1300 FWDs seem to live sheltered lives, most survive with excellent interiors and mechanical components wvwn when the bodywork is completely decomposed!

And what better reason could there be for owning an older car???? Cheers, Bill.

Definitely true (far too true, in many ways - the flying breadvan is still desperately undervalued)

Yep, the usual Ford Essex appetite for head gaskets aside. Needs regular fettling though, and the electricals are often a source of endless amusement.

Yes, with very few qualifications (and even then Southwest Scimparts or Denpart can generally find the bit in question)

_Excellent_ for day-to-day driving :), though the ride is primitive by modern standards and noise levels can be high, particularly in earlier cars.

Depends how tall the driver is. I'm 5'9" but long in the leg, and I'd not ask anyone to sit behind me in the Scimitar except for fairly short hops. Realistically, it's a 3+1.

Quick, even by modern standards.

I thought I'd been very restrained in not suggesting it already :)

Andy SE5

:)

They're not that cheap to run, mind. Nice cars (very nice cars :) but they cost Jaguar money when new and expect to be looked after in the apppropriate manner. I'd say it's worth it to own one of the genuine classic designs (put the Scimitar against pretty well any other 1967 design and marvel..), but it's something to bear in mind.

Some other options which spring to mind might be:

Peugeot 304 - not over fast, but a nice thing to drive. Parts are OK as the convertibles are much treasured these days and all the bits apart from a few panels are common. Finding a rustless one might be a challenge.

Renault 16 (ideally a TX). Lovely big armchair of a car, and in TX form a lot quicker than you might expect. Parts are probably OK as Renault continued to use the same bits for a long time after. Body parts would probably have to be sourced from France (they rusted here). Finding one might be the hard part. Might be worth it, though.

SAAB 95/95. Not over fast on paper, but the rally boys made them shift. Tough as old boots, nice honest cars. I've nearly lapsed on a 95 several times.. Come to that, the 99/90/900 series might be worth a look..

Peugeot 504 - good honest workhorse, some were a lot faster than they looked (up to 2.something injection, IIRC, and some LHD versions had V6s). Comfy. Tough. And no spares problem at all as they're still in production (in Kenya, IIRC).

Just some thoughts..

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the drugs began to take hold. I remember snipped-for-privacy@aber.ac.uk (ANDREW ROBERT BREEN) saying something like:

Oh very true - it's easily possible to pick up a MOT'd runner on ebay for a couple of hundred.

First thing anyone should do is go over the underbonnet electricals and remake all the bodged up connections of previous owners. It'll save endless hours of fun at the roadside.

I can only speak for the ones around now, and I still have yet to find an OHV with an engine I can place any faith in :(

AFAIK, the club ones are similar to the Hadrian ones, although a much better fit. I used a Hadrian one last year, damned thing is never going to look right, but then I'm not so hot on bodywork. The club also does the reinforcers inside the box section now I think, which is handy.

I've had 2, and oddly they've been the opposite! Body on my current one is very tidy indeed, as commented on most times someone sees it. But the mechanicals are getting to the point where even I find it scary to drive. Just under 100 mile round trip today, and I was close to kissing the tarmac when I got home. There's some noises just should *never* come from an engine!

Interiors do seem to last from my limited experience, but front footwell carpets don't. Still, the 1500fwd should be the same ones AFAIK, so opens the scope for spares.

I would say it's just a shame it doesn't have a reclining passenger seat (drivers does as I have back probs, so I swapped it), but then, they tend to find the car far more attractive than me!

Been to 'grab a granny' night, have you?

Landcrab? The unloved Wolseley 1800 version is like sitting in an armchair. Make it the S version and it'll have no trouble keeping up with modern traffic. Spares availability OK for the BMC parts bin stuff, but could be tricky for panels, but at these prices why buy a rusty one? Or if you're into more modern stuff, how about its wedge shaped cousin?

Whoever suggested a Mk1 or 2 Escort hasn't seen their prices lately. How about a Mk3 Cortina though? Wouldn't be my choice, but has to cover all your points above.

Mk.1/Mk.2 Granada. Get a Ghia X or if you're really lucky one of the last "Chasseur" Estates.

2.8 or 3-litre ones are fast [10ish seconds 0-60, will lollop along motorways for hours at 90+ with eminent ease) and they swallow enormous amounts of people/luggage. Power-steering & automatic gives you the 'easy driving' bit and mechanical spares availability is damned good for all except the unloved V4 Mk.1 models.