# TB vs TB Spacer?

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• posted on July 12, 2005, 2:22 am

But I'll assume that the engines that you "know" about are the same as the ones I've actually fixed, built, torn down, etc, and that the voulume of the cylinder is the same on each and every cylinder and stroke.

Sorry, no. It increases the density of the air in the cylinder, but again, ALL cylinders have the same volume on each and every stroke.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
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• posted on July 12, 2005, 4:20 am

is
the
Well, in order for the volume to be the same on each cylinder, that would mean that every cylinder, connecting rod and piston is EXACTLY the same size and we all know that is impossible. Now besides that, unless the pistons don't move in your maxworld engines, the volume between all cylinders is never the same and the volume in any one cylinder is constantly changing (with the exception of the small instant in time while the piston changes direction) as the crankshaft turns. How do you think that an engine compresses the air fuel mixture?

Wrong again! A cylinder does not have the same volume at TDC as it does at BDC and if you think that it does, lets see you get the same volume of water into the cylinder at both TDC and BDC. I think that is why they call it compression :-)
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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<%-name%>
• posted on July 12, 2005, 4:39 am

???? Once again proving you are full of shit.

Ok, lets go into idiocy with this. In Tbone world, the volume is never the same from cylinder to cylinder, despite all cylinders, rods, and pistons having the same dimensions within .001". Now, unless you are concerned with such minute diferences as .0005" or so, I think we can move on. Regarding the "constantly changing", thats rubbish. There are two points where the piston will "dwell", at BDC and TDC, at these points the piston is still. Regarding "changing" the volume of each cylinder is referred to as the "swept volume", and is the same from cyinder to cylinder, and is noted by the moniker most enhgines pick up, eaither CID or Litre, both of which refer to a volume measurement, and are NEVER changed unless the engine is modified.

With a piston.
The cylinder remains at the same volume.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
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<%-name%>
• posted on July 12, 2005, 5:12 am

would
You keep complaining about my mastery of the language but don't loke it when your childish actions are used on you. Exact means exact and unless there is absolutly no difference in any measurments between cylinders, they cannot be exactly the same.

The fact that you have that variance says that they cannot be "exactly" the same and since all of the pistons are never in exactly the same position in their bores as the others, the volume cannot be the same in all cylinders.

I believe I already said that.

refer
LOL, while true, it has nothing to do with the actual volume of each cylinder in a given point in time. The CID refers to the total volume of all cylinders at their maximum capacity and unless the engine is modified, that as you say will never change. As for the actual volume of each individual cylinder, that changes according to the position of the piston.

changes
Correct, by reducing the volume of each cylinder or compressing the volume and the gas contained within it.

LOL, impossible.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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• posted on July 12, 2005, 2:15 am

You're confusing volume and mass, or moles... the VOLUME of air in the cylinder is ALWAYS equal to the volume of that cylinder (unless it's a complete vacuum, which doesn't happen). A gas will always expand to fill it's container. Whether a gas is at 2psi, or 20psi, if it's in a 20cu.in. container, it's volume is 20cu.in.
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• posted on July 12, 2005, 4:10 am

into
Sorry Tom, but you are incorrect here and your vacuum description proves that. The volume of a cylinder is a DIMENSIONAL measurement of space within the cylinder while the volume of a material whether liquid, gas, or solid, is the AMOUNT of that material. within the space If I were to put 1 molecule of oxygen into a 20 cu in container, it most definitely would not have a volume of 20 cu in. It would take up the same molecular amount of space that a single oxygen molecule always takes up, it would just be in a 20 cu in space.

volume is 20cu.in.
No, unless the pressure was zero at sea level, it would be X cu in of gas compressed or decompressed into a 20 cu in container.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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• posted on July 12, 2005, 4:31 am

Wrong. Material is measured in weight or fluid increments. Volume will always be the amount of space the material can fill, not the amount of material.

Thats terrific, but we aren't talking about one molecule, we're talking about millions. As such, we are also talking about density.

Wrong. Refrigerent is not sold by volume, its sold by weight. Welding gas is not sold by volume, its sold by weight. Liquids are not sold by volume, they are sold by fluid measure.
> No, unless the pressure was zero at sea level, it would be X cu in of gas

Bullshit. Try buying some compressed gas sometime.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
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• posted on July 12, 2005, 5:34 am

solid,
LOL, material is not always measured in weight and fluid increments are a volume measurment and you can get 100 oz of liquid in a 200 oz container and it is still sold or measured as 100 oz. The same goes for gas although gas is usually sold in a compressed or liquid form, IOW, more CU IN of gas than the cu in volume of the container.

not
of
a
It doesn't matter. If the rule works for millions, it also has to work for just one or the rule is invalid.

it's
It is also in a liquid form when sold, LOL, and the container does have a volume measurment as well.

they
And a fluid measure is a volume of liquid, genius. Actually 1 oz 1.7338714 ci so your argument is once again, nothing but semantics.

gas
I have. It is either measure as just CU FT where it usually has a large number or by the size of the container along with the pressure. If it is in a liquid form, it is sold by weight but then again, that would not be a compressed gas now would it...
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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<%-name%>
• posted on July 13, 2005, 7:04 pm
wrote:

He called me a "homo", he called me a "homo", or lordy, is there anything worse he could do to me?
I give up, there is nothing good that can emerge from debating anything even remotely mathematical or scientific with an imbecile who's train of logic (if you could call it "logic") is this far out of whack with the rest of the thinking world...
<snip>
DJ
David - 05 KTM 200EXC djones<at>LSidaho.com http://www.spodefest.net/rmd http://www.spodefest.net/forum
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<%-name%>
• posted on July 13, 2005, 9:23 pm

your
are
this from someone who has trouble with 3% / 2% = 150%
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<%-name%>
• posted on July 14, 2005, 12:49 am

2CF
And this from the self proclaimed trans expert who doesn't even know the fluid flow of a TC.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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• posted on July 13, 2005, 8:52 pm
wrote:

well now.......you probably do consider me a friend because i give you some attention. i understand that you tried to pretend to be sarcastic but i think you are reallybeing serious. i am convinced that we are the only "friends" that you have. hey, i supposse you just have to take what you can get, but then you would be a better judge of that.
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<%-name%>
• posted on July 13, 2005, 9:19 pm

do
yes, but obviously you don't
if it has the same mass, the only way to alter the weight is to change the gravitational pull of the planet
weight = mass x gravitational acceleration
you really are too much....................
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<%-name%>
• posted on July 13, 2005, 9:59 pm

Jeez, you ARE awfully sensitive, considering you don't know me, or Gary, or Tom L, or anyone here, but calling us names wasn't hindered by your lack of "knowing" us.
--
Max

Give a man a match, and he is warm for a short while. Light him on fire, and
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<%-name%>
• posted on July 14, 2005, 12:51 am
The point is that I do know you guy's, at least as far as this NG goes and I don't recall starting off calling any of you names on my first response.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

"Max Dodge" < snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net> wrote in message
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<%-name%>
• posted on July 14, 2005, 1:09 am
TBone wrote:

Now thats funny. Qualifying when you call people names. Ya, thats nice of you to wait till your 2nd response before calling someone names! lol
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• posted on July 14, 2005, 5:08 pm

response.
I didn't say that it was my second response either. I do however, have enough respect for people that I don't come out of the gate with the name-calling like others do. If it turns to that down the road, then so be it.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving

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<%-name%>
• posted on July 14, 2005, 2:24 am

weight.
Does
canceled
try weighing a container with a 'hard' vacuum inside, then weighing it when it's filled with helium, Braniac
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• posted on July 14, 2005, 3:04 am
TranSurgeon wrote:

Thats pretty funny! If something is lighter than air then it weighs nothing! I never knew that!
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• posted on July 14, 2005, 2:58 pm

I sorta, kinda understand TBones logic, although it's rather bizzare, twisted and confusing. Maybe TBone lives in Bizzarro World, who knows...
Something is being left out here. The assertion that once a "lighter than air" aircraft has enough differential in density to become bouyant in our atmosphere that it becomes weightless, ignores the fact the airship is indeed still pushing down on the atmosphere with the same force it was pushing down on terra firma as it sat before being filled with "gas".
The idea that once something is "supported" by external forces, it is rendered "weightless" is just plain silly. By this reasoning, I should be able to pick up a bowling ball, hold it above the ground and render it weightless. After all, it is truly being supported by a force acting in direct oppositoin to gravity. The bowling ball now weighs nothing, but I now weigh 16 lbs more than I did prior to lofting the ball.
The same thing holds true for the hot air balloon. The atmosphere is supporting the weight of the balloon but suddenly that very atmosphere now weighs more than it did before it took on the load of supporting the balloon. The theory of equal and opposite reactions would dictate if the air is pushing upwards on the balloon, it must be pushing down on the surface of the earth with exactly the same amount of force.
DJ