MY BAD GEICO INSURANCE EXPERIENCE !

Every time I have ever been the proud (?) recepient of a moving violation, it seems that I had indeed done something to receive that distinction...... If I've done something wrong (such as being too preoccupied to notice the speed change) then the ticket becomes small potatoes.

We can be nearly guarranteed that we will have some kind of speed sensing device pointed in our general direction on an almost daily basis. This realization alone should be enough for most of us to PAY ATTENTION!!!! The sign says "30" (or whatever)...... who are we going to fool if we go faster? Once again... "Why would I need a radar detector?". I can see no other reason than wanting to do something other than what the sign says.... I want to go faster, but I don't want to pay the "tax".

Why aren't the cops out busting lawbreakers? Well...... I believe they are.... they're busting people who break the speed limit. You will notice that you rarely see a LEO stop a group of 40 cars for moving smoothly at 5 or 10 or maybe even more over the limit but they will stop one going faster than the rest or (in your instance) faster than the sign when no one is around.....

Please.... if you feel there were other things the LEO could have been doing to assure public safety, don't hold back from enlightening us..... Since all the businesses were closed, looking for shoplifters is out of the question....... Late at night - stuff is closed - hmmmm, people might be leaving the bar?????? Gosh - drunks don't miss speed limit signs too.....

Defending these kinds of arguments is ever so lame....... I scrape too many folks up off the highway - all results of a mistake somewhere along the line. Been years since there was a serious accident here or there or anywhere....... just means that the odds are getting better for as each moment goes by....

Even worse, many locales deliberately setup "speed traps" which have no purpose except revenue. Sudden speed limit changes to 25mph from a 45mph zone, at the bottom of a hill - and back to 45mph right afterwards. You can always find a cop on that hill.

The big mistake is allowing the towns/departments to keep/use the revenue generated from the fines. That creates a conflict of interest. Put the money toward victim funds, or highway safety projects. Then, there's no incentive to create "fake" violations...

We've all seen the cops out in force at certain times of the month. They always deny that there are quotas to meet, but only a fool could fail to see the obvious "push" to meet a target. Some days, I pass as many as 10 cops just driving to work. Most days, I see none at all. Coincidence? I think not. It happens near the end of each month...

I used to have several cops as customers in my bike shop. When another customer would recognize one of the cops, there would often be a snide comment made about "quotas". We'd laugh, and the cop would point out: "Quotas? Are you kidding? Just watch the streets for an hour; there are enough idiots out there to fill any ticket quota. We don't need a quota to write tickets; the drivers BEG to be cited."

HAHA... funny, but still... does not explain our monthly experience. Nor does it explain towns (like Portsmouth RI) which take more revenue from tickets than all the surrounding towns combined.

If they're so vigilant, why is there never one around when someone runs a red light in front of ME??? Or runs through a green light, right past the front bumper of an oncoming fire truck (sirens blaring & lights flashing). Seems to me they spend all their time in speed traps, and miss most of the really egregious violations...

Read what I wrote; they don't NEED quotas. Are some places placing more emphasis on certain tyoes of citations than the problem would justify? Yes; I never said otherwise.

I'm sure that's the way it seems to you, since you've already painted yourself as a perpetual victim. In reality, the police can't catch everyone who does something wrong, and you know it. But it fits your idea of being persecuted to complain.

They probably don't need quotas... but how else can we explain their odd monthly behavior? That's where the theory came from - a need to explain the observation. A blanket denial doesn't really help explain anything, does it?

I never said or implied any such thing. I'm not the only one who's noticed the failures. I'm a Step 9 (MA insurance)... I have no citations or accidents since 1988. I'm not their target at all, but I still notice their odd behavior.

Cops can't catch them all, but that doesn't explain the odd patterns to their patrols.

You can stop the personal attacks any time now... it's quite rude. And it does nothing to support your argument.

Two BILs as LEOs and many friends..... they will all tell you that there are no quaotas... they can write as many as they want....

If you're getting a ticket, there's likely some chance that you need it.

BTW, we have any number of "blitzes" during the year and they are well advertised..... might be seatbelt usage, stoplight/stopsign violations, speeding or whatever is deemed as being some over-riding concern.

If you're not doing something wrong, you shouldn't have any worries..... or are things different in some "free" countries?

Jim Warman snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net

I don't think the quota in question would be a *limit* ... it would not be a ceiling, but a floor. I'm sure they can write as many as they want - but are they *required* to write *at*least* a certain number?

No, the blitz referred to is not the "seat belt" or other well-advertised push, or step-up for a local community problem. Nor is it the common Holiday patrols for drunks and so forth. It's just a very odd end-of-month thing that people have noticed over the years.

It's not just a few towns, either, but almost all towns. For example, I drive through 2 towns in Massachusetts and 3 towns in Rhode Island on my way to work. In that drive, on some late month days, I can see two or three town cops in each of those towns - plus two or three state troopers from each state. On those days, I might see 7 to 15 police cars in a 23 mile drive. That's a pretty high density, to say the least. On an ordinary day, I might see 2 or maybe 3 *total* on that drive, and some days none at all. Pretty odd, and it happens every month.

And once again, I am a Step 9 (MA insurance)... I have no citations or accidents since 1988. I'm not their target at all, but I still notice their odd behavior.

Maybe it's different where you live, but I've lived in 7 US states and drive frequently in several more. The pattern has held for a long time, and in widely disparate locales. Even on my drive in a 28ft U-haul truck towing a flatbed car trailer from Arizona to Maine, I saw this odd burst of police activity at the end of the month in several states.

We've all heard the denials. Problem is, we don't have any other explanation for the observed behavior.

The worry is that you might get an unjustified ticket, or a ticket instead of the usual warning, just because that officer needs to fill his quota for the month. It's not just the issue of the fine itself (though these have become truly huge in recent years); it's the hit on your insurance cost, which goes on for at least six years after the ticket...

Again, I think the whole idea of letting the town/department keep the money from tickets creates an intolerable conflict-of-interest. Put the money toward victim relief, or highway safety. That would remove the temptation to see the money as needed revenue, and return the police to writing tickets for safety reasons instead of economic ones...

Who? Me?

We have the same blitzes, and also well publicised. They still catch those who are too dumb to know what's going on. And who, BTW, cry (on TV, yet) that they were victimized for no reason.

No, even here in the US, where I'm told that we now live in a totalitarian state, not doing anything wrong still seems to keep people from being caught up in 'disappearing' sweeps.

Short answer: "No." Why would they? Just watch the streets, and see how many drivers BEG to be ticketed, even with cops in plain view.

Peop-le notice black helos, too. And lake monsters. And ever try to listen to two people who witnessed the same crash? It will definitely make you wonder if they actually were seeing the same thing.

Where are they on the other days?

Like I said, observations are notoriously wrong.

Problem there is, you don't know what's going on, so you make up an explanation that makes you and others victims.

During these end of month activities you oberve, are drivers cited for actual violations?

Why would you (who, according to you, are such a good driver) need to have such a worry, when a simple observation will confirm that there are MANY drivers begging to be cited?

Again, that doesn't jive with what many people have noticed. Blanket denial don't really prove anything, do they? Putting forth a sensible alternative reason for monthly flurries of activity would be more helpful...

end-of-month

We aren't talking about a few nuts seeing black helicopters, or UFOs. Police cruisers exists, can be readily seen. You don't need grainy film from the 1920s to prove it.

As far as I can tell, this isn't a case of Rashomon - there aren't two competing stories. We see them, and wonder why the heck we don't see them nearly as much at other times...

Good Question. Donut Shop? Actually patrolling the rest of town? It may be a case of equal distribution on most days, and unequal distribution on certain days. Again, the question is WHY?

If it was just one person, or a few, maybe that would do for an explanation. But it isn't just a few. Many people report this, in many places, and over a period of many, many years. It's not like UFO sightings (one every 10 years, by just a few people), so that denial doesn't hold up.

We're just curious. I haven't been a victim of it, but I'm wary of it. If they are just out for $$$, I might look like a tempting victim.

Of course. Some say the reasons aren't justified, but I've seen a few that obviously were justified. Remember, though, that uneven application of the rules is an injustice just the same...

If the tickets being given out are sometimes unjustified, why wouldn't I worry about it? I've been good, accumulated a long-term good record - but that could all be taken away by an over-zealous cop looking to fill a quota for local money. That's not just unfair, it's unjust. The time to worry about it isn't AFTER it happens to you. We should care just as much if it happens to someone else, because next time it could be us. I'm not one to look the other way until it's my turn. I'd rather have a just and fair system, so it's not a concern.

As I said, personal observations are notoriously WRONG.

And, see above: personal observations don't prove anything. What I would like to see is some sort of study that shows not just that people notice these cruisers, but that there is actually a flurry of tocket-writing at the end of the month. Do you have that?

No, the question is, "Does this actually happen?"

UFO sightings are reported all the time, not once every ten years. You don't seem to understand the questions I'm asking: where's the actual evidence of this, besides the observations of a few people whio think they are being victimized?

Why? Look around: there are many drivers who just BEG to be cited. Why would the LEOs need to target you?

Well, the ALL say the tickets aren't justified, don't they? What "uneven application of the rules"? So far, all you've offered is unsubstantiated observations, and a theory.

So far, you've offered no evidence of any unfairness, only observations and a theory to fit them. Yet you express real fear based on little more than a paranoid observation and a made-up theory. Hey, that's your right. But do you have ANYTHING to back up your fears? Anything like any actual evidence of quotas?

Not exactly a quota but interesting .

Friday, February 27, 2004 · Last updated 1:36 p.m. PT

Cops caught issuing tickets as a contest

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

PORTERDALE, Ga. -- A contest between two police officers in a small Georgia town to see which one could issue the most traffic tickets was stopped by a judge who overheard the apparent winner talking about it, the mayor said.

Part-time Porterdale police officers Erin Cox and Frank Jackson wrote about 150 tickets in January, which was significantly higher than in previous months, Mayor Paul Oeland said.

Some tickets were for minor offenses including not reporting an address change to the state or having defective equipment on a vehicle, it was first reported in The Covington News.

The contest was revealed when City Court Judge C. David Strickland overheard the officers talking about it recently. Oeland said "Jackson indicated he had won the contest."

"I think it was sort of bragging rights," said Oeland, a lawyer. "They would make a traffic stop for a legitimate reason and then try to find anything else they could possibly write a ticket for."

The mayor added: "It is not anything that we as a city support."

Both officers were asked to resign by Friday by City Manager Tom Fox, Oeland said. They have been with the department less than a year, he said.

Neither could be reached Friday. There was no answer at the police department.

Denial.... you are denying that there are patterns that need to be addressed and insisting there is something akin to a conspiracy..... There are those of us who are NOT denying the need for appropriate action regarding motor vehicles... law enforcement is a key factor. Is there a chance that a free country could have local abuses of power??? They tell me no but they tell me yes.....

Why aren't the cops out seeking "real" criminals.... so vehicular homicide isn't a crime??? If you're doing something wrong, YOU ARE doing something wrong. What is it with trying to deflect blame? "The sign was hard to see"...... not very observant are we? The sign states the maximum... if we're not impeding traffic flow, we can go slower, yes?

The big deal is that the cops should be off chasing "somebody else"... "not me".... Sorry guys... this "hidden sign" shit just don't cut it...

If you honestly think there is some form of conspiracy.... I can only suggest you check out

alternative

well-advertised

explanation.

Well it certainly speaks about the integrity of people.... last time I checked, cops were people...

It might draw some of the citations into question (heavy on the 'might') but I assume it has more to do with ticketing someone that might otherwise have been let go with a stern warning.

Said it before and I'll 'said' it again..... if you're not doing something wrong, you're not doing something wrong.... If you ARE doing something wrong, no amount of window dressing will fix it....

Jim Warman snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net

We're not talking about excuses, Jim. We're talking about 1) entrapment and

2) unequal application of the law. Speed traps are *deliberately* setup so that it is very difficult (if not outright impossible) to comply. It's not usually a hidden sign - more often, it's a speed limit sign of 20mph less than the limit on the earlier section of road. Usually, the new limit is posted just over the crest of a hill... or around a curve... so there's no way to see it until it's too late. The giveaway is the always-present ideal lie-in-wait position that is inevitably just on the other side of the sign. If you are not given soon enough notice of the change, and enough room to make the change in speed - how is that fair?

These speed limit postings are NOT for safety - they're for revenue. And that's just plain dishonest.

Are those ticketed doing something wrong? Yes - but only because they were NOT given an opportunity to do otherwise.

For those who believe, no evidence is necessary.

For those who disbelieve, no evidence is sufficient.

I am not a business or not-for-profit. I do not have the resources to conduct surveys, or monitor police activity. Perhaps we need someone to do so.

However, when AAA puts up signs in Florida warning of speed-trap towns... I think that may be based on more than just conjecture.

When certain towns obtain an unusually high percentage of their revenue from traffic tickets, I think that's a pretty big red flag. Driving habits aren't all that different in adjacent towns, especially when those towns have very similar roads (or different sections of the same roads). That, and the raw number of citations compared to nearby towns, is what made AAA post billboards in Florida.

Being a Canadian rather than an American, I have a somewhat different view (although no more favourable) of authority. Whether a town or municipality monitors certain driving infractions for public awareness and safety or if they monitor these same infractions for revenue generation makes little difference.

If the law isn't being broken, where is the problem?

As I'd mentioned.... the LEOs in our fair land will occasionally 'blitz' certain areas and/or infractions.... made public through ad campaigns. Up here, the campaigns are directed at changing cavalier behaviour... failing to stop, seatbelt infractions, speeding, faulty equipment...... one biggie in my mind is failing to use adequate child safety restraints..... Yet with all the advertising and hoopla, people continue to get p*ssed when they get caught - go figure.

If everyone treated the highways and biways as if the next burg was home to active speed traps, there would be a whole lot less carnage on our roadways. It is a proven fact that speed kills... reaction distances multiply, the sudden stop at the end is more sudden and we are subject to forces that we're just not built to absorb.

The subject shouldn't be "what can I get away with..." - the idea is to have a wife instead of a widow.... Our accident investigations show most accidents to be avoidable, but they weren't and too many accidents that were survivable didn't turn out that way.... the fault lies not with the powers that be nor the vehicle makers. Our fate rests in our own hands and the hands of those around us and the sooner we stop abdicating our social responsibilities, the better off we'll all be.

Jim Warman who scrapes too many hapless souls off the highway with a stick and a spoon.. snipped-for-privacy@telusplanet.net