Only way to really know if it is truly German is to try and sell one.
If it maintains more than 50% of it's purchase price in the first year you're probably not driving your fathers Chrysler. :-)
Of course the executives are not shareholders. They don't mind the income, but they sure aren't tying their futures to the companies. :-)
Are you sure the smoke isn't from a Chrysler mini van in front of the CV? Since 1992 members of my family have owned
5 Ford modular V-8s. Not one has blown blue smoke out the tailpipe - including ones that had over 147,000 miles. I occasionally see CV taxi cabs in my area that emit a little smoke at times, but around here the taxi cabs are all ex-highway patrol or city police vechiles purchased from the NC State Surplus Property auction. Mostly they start out their life as taxi cabs with 75,000 to 100,000 miles and go from their.Ed
They put them on the floor. I am 6'3" and I never have any trouble riding in the back of my Mom's Grand Marquis.
Ed
Versus a high percentage lining the pockets of fat cats in Michigan?
Ed
You got a problem with that?
--Geoff
And I though that there was a country which was Southern Ontario + USA, and then there was Canada...
DAS
Interesting about Chrysler, but Daimler-Benz never had significant executive shareholders, AFAIK. The biggest single 'private' shareholder is the Kuwaiti govt, via its investment vehicle.
DAS
Many international companies maintain R & D and design studios in several countries, not just in their HQ building.
Some of you just have to get over the fact that international companies are international... in Britain this process took place many years ago with the demise of British Leyland, before which a high percentage of cars sold in Britain were 'domestic'. Anyway, how 'foreign' are Ford and GM in Britain, both whom have maintained production etc here for decades?
DAS
Yes. For instance:
"Wagoner's total 2002 compensation package reached $14.7 million in 2002, compared with $7.43 million in 2001, when the company failed to achieve financial targets, according to the company's proxy released Thursday."
Do you really think the guy running GM is worth $14.7 million dollars? I don't.
Ed
I don't think it's any of my damn business what he or anyone else earns in their paycheck. His salary is the result of a deal struck between that Wagoner and his employer, and he was well-served to negotiate the best deal for himself that he could, whether you or I or anyone else thinks that he's 'worth' that or not. Obviously, if the board of directors thought he was overpaid, they'd cut his salary. If they were somehow in cahoots together and the overly large salaries were really causing actual harm to the company, the stock price would plummet as the company failed to perform. These things have not happened, so I think it is fair to conclude that Mr. Wagoner has struck a fair deal for himself with General Motors, which in case you didn't know, is currently the largest automobile manufacturer *in the world*. Would I want fourteen million dollars to live with the headache of running and being made accountable for an operation that large? You're goddamned right I would, and I think I would deserve it. Half of the freaking State of Michigan is relying upon that man to make good decisions and keep the General Motors empire -- with finances larger than many individual countries -- rolling along making a profit.
*My* income depends, in part, on his making good decisions.Do you mean to tell me that GM shouldn't reward an individual for an effort of that magnitude?
Do you mean to tell me that GM shouldn't try to attract the best and the brightest among us to positions that have that sort of responsibility?
Do you mean to tell me that GM should place that sort of responsibility in the hands of somebody who's willing to do the job cheap?
Do you mean to tell me that somehow *your own* contribution to society at large is commensurate with his, and therefore he is not deserving of his salary because *you* do not make as much?
What I would like to know is who nominated you as being the arbiter of who should get paid and how much? I would also like to know how your system of values has gotten so completely f**ked over that you think that the people who *make it possible* for half of an entire state to have good employment, homes over their heads, food in their mouths and educations for their children shouldn't get paid more than X dollars, regardless of what X happens to be. Are the people of the State of Michigan unimportant to you, because they happen to be distant from where you are? Is America's industrial economy something that is to be subject to the snivelling whims of people such as yourself who think that the fat cat CEOs are overpaid and 'there outta be a law?'! Do you think the shareholders of GM are so stupid they are willing to let Mr. Wagoner rip them off?
Thankfully, folks such as you *aren't* running the country. I can only hope that this condition persists in November.
I'll tell you one more thing while I'm at it: I don't make $14 million dollars a year. You probably don't make $14 million dollars a year either. Want to know why? Because neither one of us has the talent, drive, skill, experience, willingness and commitment that Mr. Wagoner manifests in his daily life. That's why he is WORTH $14 million a year, and you and I aren't. Period. I'm happy with what I earn. I would suggest that if you aren't happy with you earn, that you do something about it, and quit complaining about those who have risen to the top. That won't get you anywhere, and it sure as hell doesn't help anyone else either.
--Geoff
Geo. wrote:
If the world was a fair place, I wouldn't care what executives make. However, most large corporations are run like the '60 era Soviet Union. The Board of Directors are members of an exclusive club and they slap each other on the back while running their corporate empires for their personal benefit. Sometimes, a few crumbs reach the average investor, but that is usually a mistakle that is rectified in the next quarter. Board of Directories routinely reward incompetence with huge raises and sweet heart stock deals. They are little more than reverse Robin Hood Gangs - steal from the poor and give to the rich. If stock holders exercised any real control, then I could live with it. But for the most part, small investors are just gambling when they invest in the stock market. The big players (banks, mutuals, etc.) are all part of the big Casino that people think is a stock market. They make sure they (the BIG boys) get theirs and they don't give a d%^m about the little guy, except to have him feed more money into their coffers so that they can live like a Sultan. Having kept a job during the reign (and I do mean reign) of one of the greatest flim flam artist of the 20th century, I can tell you that the picture from the bottom of the food chain is a lot different than the one portrayed in the media. When you aren't allowed to buy pencils for a month, because the company must make arbitrary 3rd quarter numbers, or some other such nonsense, you know the people running the company are insane, or that they are cooking the books to make themselves look good.
Ed
Thanks! Just to clarify, I don?t care too much if it is domestic. I really like the simplicity, and seat arrangment of Dynasty (I can easily pack 6-7 people in there).
You must be satisfied with the performance of your Enron stock too.
Are you talking about this car -
Wheelbase, in. 104.5 Overall Length, in. 193.6 Overall Width, in. 68.9 Overall Height, in. 53.6 Curb Weight, lbs. 3276 Cargo Volume, cu. ft. 16.5 Seating Capacity 6 Front Head Room, in. 38.3 Max. Front Leg Room, in. 41.9 Rear Head Room, in. 37.8 Min. Rear Leg Room, in. 38.9
This is roughly the size of a Ddge Stratus, Chevy Malibu, Honda Accord, or Toyota Camry. The biggest problem you are going to have is matching the 6 passenger seating. Most cars that are similar in size only offer 5 passenger seating, even though most actually offer more seating room that the Dynasty. The Ford Taurus is larger than your Dynasty, and it does offer 6 passenger seating as an option. The Toyota Avalon and Ford Crown Victoria also offers 6 passemger seating as an option. But that's about it. Everything else with 6 passenger seating is larger and more expensive. And in many case, even the larger more expensive cars, like the Chrysler 300, don't offer 6 passenger seating.
Ed
Art wrote:
That's easy, Art: I don't own any stock. I don't gamble in the stock market, other than the small amount of mutual fund gambling I do by virtue of the fact that I have a (minimally contributed to) company 401K. I sleep better at night than I would otherwise. Yet despite all the 'wisdom' of the 'financial experts' that would indicate otherwise, I seem to be enjoying a happy and fulfilling life, and probably will be for many, many decades to come. You, on the other hand, seem to be whining about every little thing at the least opportunity. See how strange this is?
If your participation in the stock market is causing you to make ridiculous assertions like we've seen here about how unfair it all is that some people make more money than others, perhaps you might want to get out of it, too.
Clearly, if you've got enough skin in the stock market game to fret about how much other people get paid, you're in far, far too deep. Maybe there should be a "stock holder's anonymous' similar to the various gambler's anonymous groups out there.
I've been thinking you need some professional help for quite awhile now, Art. Maybe this is just the sort of thing you need.
--Geoff
Here's a big, time-saving hint, Ed: Life ain't fair. It isn't supposed to be. Get over it.
However, most large corporations are run
Oh, geeze. Here we go with the class envy.
Yep, that's why GM is in business: to rip off the little guy.
Silly me, I thought they built vehicles and provided financing.
If stock holders
Well, duh! Did you just figure this out? Of *course* it's gambling,
*who* told you otherwise? Some MBA?The big players (banks,
Guess what, Ed: everyone tries to cast their job performance in the best possible light. That is simple human nature. If you really expect otherwise, you're badly misinformed.
As far as living like a Sultan is concerned: I've got *no* argument with anybody who has the means to live in the manner they so choose. They don't bother me, and I'm quite sure I don't bother them. Most contribute *far* more than their fair share to society through their efforts and taxes, and dammit, I'm not going to be the one to try and take their chosen lifestyle away from them. I may not always agree with how they live, and I may not want to be like them, but does it hurt me that they do so? Absolutely not. I just hope they buy enough cars and computers to make for a persistent, positive upswing in the parts of the economy that concern me, and as for the rest, that's between them and their maker (if any.)
--Geoff
The Ford Modular is a pretty marginal engine design with about 1001 weak spots and band-aids applied to it over the past 10 years to make it serviceable (yes, I was a fan of the Windsor smallblocks). BUT I will say that the last 5 years or so have been pretty solid, especially the
4.6 version. The early ones did tend to spew blue (cylinder sealing issues) but that seems to be pretty well in hand now. After all, the engine in the police CV is the same as all the rest except for the dual exhaust.GMs are OK if you get the Buick 3800 engine. The Chevy 3400 v6 and (heaven forbid) the "Ecotec" 4 are both execrable little junkers. And even then, some model years of the 3800 also tended to mix their oil and water all to eagerly (bad intake gasket design).
I'd pick a 3.5L-powered Chrysler (Intrepid, Concorde, Vision, 300, LHS) in a heartbeat. Avoid the 2.7L v6.
"Improvements" is not the same thing as "All New".
Obviously you love those boats, more power to you.
John
US law enforcement is in love with big rear wheel drive vehicles, and everyone else dropped out of that game. It is a wonder that the Japanese police are able to do their jobs without access to the Crown Vic. Of course if one looks at the relative crime rates of industrialized countries then the US police do not seem to be very effective. I would not consider the vehicle choice of US police departments to be an indicator of great expertise.
From
Murders per 100,000.
Rape per 100,000.
Serious Assault per 100,000.
Robbery/Violent Theft per 100,000.
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.