Looking for a mid-size domestic car recommendation

Yes I do have a problem with how State Farm Spends it's policyholders money. When I worked there there were drawers full of cellphones on monthly plans that no-one was using. Lap-top computers that were changed bi-yearly when they were never used within a tenth of their capacity. Lots full of "company cars" that were used rarely, and traded for new often. and on and on and on. It would make the Capitalist in you sick to see the Capital & potential being wasted. Want to see SF money at work? Take a trip to Bloominton Ill.

To put your mind at ease I'm not a Capitalist, Or a Communist, or a Socialist. To put it in easy terms here's my perspective: Economically I tend to lean in the direction that the British protectorate of Hong Kong prior to the present rule. From a Society perspective my views tend to be more like the Northern Europeans. I.E. generous welfare @ $20K per person per year is cheaper and safer than cheap prisons @ $40K per person per year

BUT ! the European police can drive Manual.... Aside from their Auto boxes a 5 series BMW or an E or S class Mercedes could hold up. (I'll reserve comment on the Audi's)

| >I agree...a couple people at work (one with a GM and one a CV) and both have | >200K+ on the clock with hardly a problem. They're damn reliable vehicles, it | >seems. Could be one reason law enforcement use them so much. | >

| | How much oil smoke do they blow out the tailpipe? Seems I can't pass | a Lincoln Town Car, GM or CV and NOT see a cloud of blue smoke behind | it, except for the police version of the CV...

I've not noticed any smoke from them.

| >

| | Jeeezzz, James.......You seem to think every modern convenience is silly or | a gimmick. Do you have a running stream with large rocks in it near your | house? I'm sure it comes in handy on laundry day. | | H | |

Because most (recently) are useless and of no added value...except to raise production costs. Hardly a "modern convenience" to have the radio volume adjust (especially when the radio doesn't know if you have the windows down or not, so you have to still manually adjust it anyway). Truly a idiotic "convenience" feature. Thankfully it can be user disabled.

Nope, no stream or rocks...just a Maytag Neptune front loader to do the laundry.

| > The car may be "domestic", from a legal definition, however the company that | > produced it is not. A larger percentage of the profits, as a general rule, | > leave the US on its way to the high wage salaries, R&D, design teams, etc. of | > the host country where the HQ is location as a result. | | Versus a high percentage lining the pockets of fat cats in | Michigan? | | Ed

The money is still in the USA. These "fat cats" don't put it in their mattress...they do something with it. And I'd rather USA fat cats have the $$$ and spend them here than foreign fat cats have it and spend it there.

| > C. E. White wrote: | >

| > > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 08:02:35 -0400 | > > From: C. E. White | > > Newsgroups: alt.autos.gm, rec.autos.makers.chrysler, alt.autos.ford | > > Subject: Re: Looking for a mid-size domestic car recommendation | > >

| > >

| > >

| > > "James C. Reeves" wrote: | > >

| > > > | Cars built in North America of primarily North American parts are | > > > | considered "domestic" for legal purposes, regardless of whether the | > > > | nameplate says "Dodge" or "Nissan" or whatever. | > > > | | > > >

| > > > The car may be "domestic", from a legal definition, however the company that | > > > produced it is not. A larger percentage of the profits, as a general rule, | > > > leave the US on its way to the high wage salaries, R&D, design teams, etc. of | > > > the host country where the HQ is location as a result. | > >

| > > Versus a high percentage lining the pockets of fat cats in | > > Michigan? | > >

| > > Ed | > >

| >

| > You got a problem with that? | | Yes. For instance: | | "Wagoner's total 2002 compensation package reached $14.7 | million in 2002, compared with $7.43 million in 2001, when | the company failed to achieve financial targets, according | to the company's proxy released Thursday." | | Do you really think the guy running GM is worth $14.7 | million dollars? I don't. | | Ed

I don't particularly think so. But that's for the stock holders and directors to decide. It's irrelevant to the particular topic in this thread anyway.

Those that I know (including some family members) that don't have health insurance is because they don't want to pay for it. They can easily afford it and they simply choose not to get it. "Access" is truly not the problem some politicians claim. Everyone can buy health insurance here in the states if they choose to...it is available.

ROFL...."stock holder's anonymous". That's a good one!

If GM stock can return profit to the stockholder of 8%-12% over 15-20 years, most stockholders don't care what they pay the CEO.

Hi...

Yup. The thousands of homeless americans should just run right out and buy it.

Ken

The Dynasty was NEVER built on the stretched K chassis. The stretched K was the Dodge 600 and the LeBaron and New Yorker 4 cyl. The Dynasty and the New Yorker 6 and Landau are significantly larger than the "super K". We are talking 1899 to 1993, I believe. They are marginally smaller than the Diplomat/Fury/New Yorker/Fifth Ave of the early eighties (up to 1988) with rear wheel drive.

I have owned both a 1985 "super K" LeBaron T&C wagon and a 1988 Landau. TOTALLY different cars.

The irony of most arguments along these lines is that those who hurl accusations of unrealistic utopianism are themselves advocates of different utopias. This Geoff character, in pissing on "collectivists" and "socialists", is implicitly advocating for an equally-unworkable capitalist utopia.

See below.

DAS

If you knew anything about the available medical care in the US you would know the homeless receive their medical car at no cost to them, the taxpayers pick up the tab via one of several free medical care programs provide by the federal and state governments.

Ken Weitzel wrote:

Another thought: in the mid-eighies I took a factory tour of what was then (and probably still is) the main passenger car plant of Mercedes-Benz in Sindelfingen, near Stuttgart, i.e. long before Merc was producing significantly outside Germany. The issue of domestic-made came up and there was some discussion about the merits thereof (fine German labour etc -- "Deutsche Wertarbeit"). Then it was pointed out that the vast majority of assembly line workers were of Turkish origin...

DAS

If you have one of the early Neptunes, call Maytag and say the word "mildew" and they will come out and make a bunch of improvements to it for free.... new circuit board, seals, etc.

And for very good reason- they saw what happened to FWDs they tried when you whip them across a highway median or a curb, and didn't like it. Neither did the maintenance shops.

I really like the new Dodge Magnum and the LX platform in general, but if they do release a police-package version of it as rumored, the police package is going to have to include steel suspension control-arms in place of the aluminum that's currently on there, or it'll be the same story all over. Yeah, the aluminum is nice for ride and handling because of the lower unsprung weight, but its just not going to be strong enough for highway patrol (ab)use.

Swap the two brands, and you are describing my experience.

I've never had a Chrysler product let me down and I've put 200k+ on several of them. I've never had a GM that didn't need some huge repair, a thousand little repairs, or was as easy to work on when it needed repair. NEVER will I buy a GM without a lot of convincing. The impression I get of the GM rentals I get when I travel (Impalas, Grand Prixs, Grand Ams, Malibus) is that they are still miserable little sons-of-Citations, except when I get one with a 3800 v6. Ford's my second pick if Daimler messes too much with Chrysler.

Well I am not a Chrysler expert (having only suffered through two of their producs). I thought the AC body was just another K car variant. The specs sure look like it.

From : Most people don't know it, but the AC/Y bodies (Imperial, Dynasty, FWD

5th Ave, New Yorker of the 1990's) were the replacement for the M-body line when it ended in 1989.

The first true AC/Y body was the Dodge Dynasty, which entered the market for the 1988 year. The car was originally meant to be a more expensive (top of the line Dodge model) box-like car, based on the k-cars (like all of the other FWD Mopars of that era). The Dynasty was mostly of original design, and had little taken or influenced by other models. The grill seemed to be based on the older grills used in the

80's LeBaron, and the rear tail lights look to be influenced by the M-body series, but other then that, the car's body was mostly unique.

From

:

1. What are the K-cars?

Herb DaSilva: Chrysler used the components on the Aries/Reliant (K) in many of its other platforms. These platforms... share similar distance between the wheels on the same axle, and have the same suspension design. Most K variants can swap struts (H is an exception). K derivates include: Laser (pre-88)/Daytona (G), Shadow/Sundance (P), LeBaron/New Yorker (J), LeBaron sedan (pre-90)/Lancer (H), Dynasty/New Yorker/Imperial (C), Acclaim/Spirit/LeBaron sedan (AA). Each derivative has a different wheelbase and floor pan. The minivan is only loosely based on the K platform. (Executive and Limousine were low-production extended-Ks, and the CSX was a performance Sundance/Shadow).

These cars are collectively referred to as EEKs. There is a mailing list for them at

From

: This on-line car club serves those who have everyday extended K-based cars from Chrysler Corporation - every front wheel drive Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge car made from the 1980s through 1995 with the exception of the LH series (Intrepid family), L series (Omni family), Cloud Cars, Neon, and imports.

Regards,

Ed White

| > Those that I know (including some family members) that don't have health | > insurance is because they don't want to pay for it. They can easily afford it | > and they simply choose not to get it. "Access" is truly not the problem some | > politicians claim. Everyone can buy health insurance here in the states if | > they choose to...it is available. | >

| | Hi... | | Yup. The thousands of homeless americans should just | run right out and buy it. | | Ken |

Those people likely have bigger problems than health insurance...like why they aren't taking advantage of available social services that would remedy the situation you describe. That is available also. At some point one has to decide to help themselves.